5 ms·

Vox has an excellent video called 'China is erasing its border with Hong Kong' which details how the Chinese government is tightening it's control of Hong Kong.

Vox has an excellent video called 'China is erasing its border with Hong Kong' which details how the Chinese government is tightening it's control of Hong Kong. It's well worth a watch. Here's the video description: "When Britain handed Hong Kong back to China in 1997, Chinese leaders agreed that Hong Kong would be able to keep its economic and political systems, including some of the civil freedoms denied to China’s citizens on the mainland, for the next 50 years. Although Hong Kong still has nearly 30 years of semi-autonomy left, China has started tightening its grip, and many believe it is chipping away at Hong Kong’s freedoms." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyxG4vTyZ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyxG4vTyZ8

macspoofing 7y ago
The only thing keeping Hong Kong's sovereignty (such as it is) is Taiwan. There is some understanding on the Chinese side that a full annexation of the territory would strengthen independence hardliners in Taiwan - which is the real prize because Taiwan is absolutely critical for Chinese national defense. If it wasn't for that, Hong Kong would have been wholly annexed by now.
- wbl 7y ago
  Taiwan is not critical for Chinese defense. Who wants to pick a fight with a giant well funded army?
  - adventured 7y ago
    > Who wants to pick a fight with a giant well funded army? History is littered with modern examples. The US Colonies (British Empire). Latin America (Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, British, French). The Viet Cong (US, France). Finland (Russia). Iraqi resistance groups (US). The Taliban, Mujahideen (US, Russia). North Korea (UN). Ukraine (Russia). Hezbollah (Israel). Yugoslavia (NATO). Emus (Australia). Every giant well funded army has also lost at some point. For China, it's ideal to remove Taiwan as a staging ground that could be held by any opposition. Consider a scenario where it's NATO countries + Japan + South Korea + Taiwan, + Australia + New Zealand vs China in a massive conflict (or any similar variation). It would be far better to wholly control the island of Taiwan than not.
    - wbl 7y ago
      Is taking China worth losing LA? Or Seattle? They have nukes.
  - macspoofing 7y ago
    Just look at the map. If Taiwan were to become independent and an American ally, that would mean the entire Chinese pacific coast would be encircled by American allies - South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Philippines.
    - CogitoCogito 7y ago
      The ROC and the PRC _are_ independent countries. They don't say they are, but clearly they are. The PRC already basically (that qualifier probably isn't necessary) is an ally of the United States. I don't disagree with your point (Chinese fears of encirclement), but the way you present. It's already the case and China is trying to invade Taiwan to change it. It's all consistent with China's attempt to phrase Taiwan as being separatist as opposed to the truth which is that China is being militaristic and imperialistic. It's dangerous double-speak and needs to stop.
      - macspoofing 7y ago
        >The ROC and the PRC _are_ independent countries. You know that's not true. >They don't say they are, but clearly they are. So why don't they say that? >The PRC already basically (that qualifier probably isn't necessary) is an ally of the United States. And what is the United States' position on the independence of Taiwan? >It's dangerous double-speak and needs to stop. Sometimes language can reflect reality, and the reality is that Taiwan is quasi-independent.
        CogitoCogito 7y ago
        > You know that's not true. The PRC and the ROC have separate economies, militaries, governments, currencies. They engage in interational trade separately, organize telecommunications separately, they issue their own passports and they are recognized separately. The land controlled by the PRC and the land controlled by the ROC have been stable for 70 years. Those two landmasses have been united under one government for about 4 years in the last 125. To say that they are not two separate countries is totally delusional. > And what is the United States' position on the independence of Taiwan? What does that matter? The facts on the ground are that they are separate countries. The US position that the PRC wasn't a country in the 50s and 60s didn't magically make it the case. > Sometimes language can reflect reality, and the reality is that Taiwan is quasi-independent. You clearly don't live in reality.
- everdev 7y ago
  Why is Taiwan absolutely critical to Chinese defense?
  - vaughnegut 7y ago
    Taiwan is an unsinkable aircraft carrier. It provides a massive platform from which to attack the mainland. Maintaining control denies this advantage to any attackers.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - taobility 7y ago
      There are so many unsinkable aircraft carriers around China. Taiwan is not the only one, and also Taiwan island is too far away from USA, the only possible opponent of China. So once the war is starting, China is very easy to occupy Taiwan before USA can provide the support.
      - pimmen 7y ago
        Taiwan is actually very close to two very important US allies, the Philippines and Japan. It’s alot harder and more expensive to launch an attack from Luzon or Okinawa than it is to launch it from Taiwan.
        taobility 7y ago
        I wouldn't count Philippines as US's alley now. And also, Taiwan Strait just 150KM wide, and how long between Luzon and Okinawa?
        scottlocklin 7y ago
        It's a hell of a lot closer to China than to Philippines or Japan. FWIIW it was historically used by forces which threatened Chinese sovereignty, including Japan. Since Chinese leadership actually reads history instead of making stuff up as they go along, as Westerners do, that's probably why it's such a sore spot for them.
odiroot 7y ago
What's Hong Kong, you mean southern part of Greater Shenzhen? /s

macspoofing 7y ago

The only thing keeping Hong Kong's sovereignty (such as it is) is Taiwan. There is some understanding on the Chinese side that a full annexation of the territory would strengthen independence hardliners in Taiwan - which is the real prize because Taiwan is absolutely critical for Chinese national defense. If it wasn't for that, Hong Kong would have been wholly annexed by now.

wbl 7y ago
Taiwan is not critical for Chinese defense. Who wants to pick a fight with a giant well funded army?
- adventured 7y ago
  > Who wants to pick a fight with a giant well funded army? History is littered with modern examples. The US Colonies (British Empire). Latin America (Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, British, French). The Viet Cong (US, France). Finland (Russia). Iraqi resistance groups (US). The Taliban, Mujahideen (US, Russia). North Korea (UN). Ukraine (Russia). Hezbollah (Israel). Yugoslavia (NATO). Emus (Australia). Every giant well funded army has also lost at some point. For China, it's ideal to remove Taiwan as a staging ground that could be held by any opposition. Consider a scenario where it's NATO countries + Japan + South Korea + Taiwan, + Australia + New Zealand vs China in a massive conflict (or any similar variation). It would be far better to wholly control the island of Taiwan than not.
  - wbl 7y ago
    Is taking China worth losing LA? Or Seattle? They have nukes.
- macspoofing 7y ago
  Just look at the map. If Taiwan were to become independent and an American ally, that would mean the entire Chinese pacific coast would be encircled by American allies - South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Philippines.
  - CogitoCogito 7y ago
    The ROC and the PRC _are_ independent countries. They don't say they are, but clearly they are. The PRC already basically (that qualifier probably isn't necessary) is an ally of the United States. I don't disagree with your point (Chinese fears of encirclement), but the way you present. It's already the case and China is trying to invade Taiwan to change it. It's all consistent with China's attempt to phrase Taiwan as being separatist as opposed to the truth which is that China is being militaristic and imperialistic. It's dangerous double-speak and needs to stop.
    - macspoofing 7y ago
      >The ROC and the PRC _are_ independent countries. You know that's not true. >They don't say they are, but clearly they are. So why don't they say that? >The PRC already basically (that qualifier probably isn't necessary) is an ally of the United States. And what is the United States' position on the independence of Taiwan? >It's dangerous double-speak and needs to stop. Sometimes language can reflect reality, and the reality is that Taiwan is quasi-independent.
      - CogitoCogito 7y ago
        > You know that's not true. The PRC and the ROC have separate economies, militaries, governments, currencies. They engage in interational trade separately, organize telecommunications separately, they issue their own passports and they are recognized separately. The land controlled by the PRC and the land controlled by the ROC have been stable for 70 years. Those two landmasses have been united under one government for about 4 years in the last 125. To say that they are not two separate countries is totally delusional. > And what is the United States' position on the independence of Taiwan? What does that matter? The facts on the ground are that they are separate countries. The US position that the PRC wasn't a country in the 50s and 60s didn't magically make it the case. > Sometimes language can reflect reality, and the reality is that Taiwan is quasi-independent. You clearly don't live in reality.
everdev 7y ago
Why is Taiwan absolutely critical to Chinese defense?
- vaughnegut 7y ago
  Taiwan is an unsinkable aircraft carrier. It provides a massive platform from which to attack the mainland. Maintaining control denies this advantage to any attackers.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - taobility 7y ago
    There are so many unsinkable aircraft carriers around China. Taiwan is not the only one, and also Taiwan island is too far away from USA, the only possible opponent of China. So once the war is starting, China is very easy to occupy Taiwan before USA can provide the support.
    - pimmen 7y ago
      Taiwan is actually very close to two very important US allies, the Philippines and Japan. It’s alot harder and more expensive to launch an attack from Luzon or Okinawa than it is to launch it from Taiwan.
      - taobility 7y ago
        I wouldn't count Philippines as US's alley now. And also, Taiwan Strait just 150KM wide, and how long between Luzon and Okinawa?
      - scottlocklin 7y ago
        It's a hell of a lot closer to China than to Philippines or Japan. FWIIW it was historically used by forces which threatened Chinese sovereignty, including Japan. Since Chinese leadership actually reads history instead of making stuff up as they go along, as Westerners do, that's probably why it's such a sore spot for them.

odiroot 7y ago

What's Hong Kong, you mean southern part of Greater Shenzhen? /s