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Not quite. A working family living in a city for generations shouldn’t be displaced by taxes on unrealized gains. If the city wants to tax at current prices,

by aey 7y ago

Not quite. A working family living in a city for generations shouldn’t be displaced by taxes on unrealized gains. If the city wants to tax at current prices, they should guarantee that price for 5 years.

estebank 7y ago
All you need is one or two of those generations to have more than one kid and the same dynamic that makes it unaffordable for everyone will make it unaffordable for at least one branch of that generational family.
- aey 7y ago
  So why can’t FAANG build offices in Detroit? In the Bay Area the lack of affordability comes from concentration of high paying jobs in a small area. They have the economic clout to push the area to build more, or expand in another part of the country.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - rcpt 7y ago
    Because relocating a trillion dollar business cluster to make some curmondgely homeowners happy is moronic
    - aey 7y ago
      Amazon just did it. Everyone doesn’t need to pack up and move. Those homeowners seem to have a majority in the area. Seems moronic to run a trillion dollar company at odds with the local government. NYC has an income tax. I bet SF will have one within 5 years.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - delackner 7y ago
    Actually no, the lack of affordability is 100% due to political decisionmaking that for the past 30+ years has failed to generate enough housing to match population growth. No supply + extreme demand -> massive increase in prices.
enraged_camel 7y ago
>>A working family living in a city for generations shouldn’t be displaced by taxes on unrealized gains. Why? What entitles someone to being in a certain location?
- AdrianB1 7y ago
  The right to live and to have property that was legally acquired. Otherwise is just a new form of feudalism.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    "You might have to move every thirty years" is not exactly feudalism. Also you get paid an enormous amount of money to move when the property value gets so high that you can't pay the percentage in taxes. Go buy three houses somewhere else and don't pretend you're oppressed.
    - aey 7y ago
      Do you have kids and a family? My parents couldn’t move to a home within reasonable distance to their kids and grandkids.
      - Dylan16807 7y ago
        For the specific situation of "parent currently lives near kids, kids can afford expensive house, parent can't afford a new house near them" I have sympathy. But it's kind of a niche case. If the parent lived anywhere else it would be equally sad, but locking tax rates wouldn't help them the tiniest bit. And anything that stagnates supply makes it harder not only on unlucky parents buying houses near kids, but on all the kids that want to buy houses near the parents. If we were regularly pushing people out with huge paydays, and then putting in denser housing, they'd be able to afford to move right back in with the only downside being a smaller yard to offset their pile of cash. And people that didn't win the housing lottery would be able to move in too.
scarejunba 7y ago
Usually you can bypass the problem by making it a transfer tax thing. When you sell, all your taxes come due through the change in price. For inheritances, you re-assess and consider it a sale. If the price went up lots, the kids can pay the tax and keep it, or they can sell the property and pay off the taxes.
- aey 7y ago
  Transfer tax is totally fine. But governments that try to get between families will end up on the loosing end. What inevitably happens is that the rich get loopholes and the middle class pays. At least in California everyone gets the same deal.
  - scarejunba 7y ago
    In practice, California's method entrenches wealth.
    - aey 7y ago
      Does it? Nothing to do with that massive tech industry? Seattle is a socialist paradise I take it? If you can get all the Google engineers to go on strike unless Mountain View agrees to build 50,000 homes, it will be done over night.
      - scarejunba 7y ago
        Honestly don't know what you're on about. Grandfathered-in property taxes definitely entrench wealth more than "everyone pays current rate" or "everyone pays past rate". I'm not trying to explain housing prices here. I'm talking about the innate behaviour of Prop 13.

by aey 7y ago

estebank 7y ago

All you need is one or two of those generations to have more than one kid and the same dynamic that makes it unaffordable for everyone will make it unaffordable for at least one branch of that generational family.

aey 7y ago
So why can’t FAANG build offices in Detroit? In the Bay Area the lack of affordability comes from concentration of high paying jobs in a small area. They have the economic clout to push the area to build more, or expand in another part of the country.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- rcpt 7y ago
  Because relocating a trillion dollar business cluster to make some curmondgely homeowners happy is moronic
  - aey 7y ago
    Amazon just did it. Everyone doesn’t need to pack up and move. Those homeowners seem to have a majority in the area. Seems moronic to run a trillion dollar company at odds with the local government. NYC has an income tax. I bet SF will have one within 5 years.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- delackner 7y ago
  Actually no, the lack of affordability is 100% due to political decisionmaking that for the past 30+ years has failed to generate enough housing to match population growth. No supply + extreme demand -> massive increase in prices.

enraged_camel 7y ago

>>A working family living in a city for generations shouldn’t be displaced by taxes on unrealized gains. Why? What entitles someone to being in a certain location?

AdrianB1 7y ago
The right to live and to have property that was legally acquired. Otherwise is just a new form of feudalism.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  "You might have to move every thirty years" is not exactly feudalism. Also you get paid an enormous amount of money to move when the property value gets so high that you can't pay the percentage in taxes. Go buy three houses somewhere else and don't pretend you're oppressed.
  - aey 7y ago
    Do you have kids and a family? My parents couldn’t move to a home within reasonable distance to their kids and grandkids.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      For the specific situation of "parent currently lives near kids, kids can afford expensive house, parent can't afford a new house near them" I have sympathy. But it's kind of a niche case. If the parent lived anywhere else it would be equally sad, but locking tax rates wouldn't help them the tiniest bit. And anything that stagnates supply makes it harder not only on unlucky parents buying houses near kids, but on all the kids that want to buy houses near the parents. If we were regularly pushing people out with huge paydays, and then putting in denser housing, they'd be able to afford to move right back in with the only downside being a smaller yard to offset their pile of cash. And people that didn't win the housing lottery would be able to move in too.

scarejunba 7y ago

Usually you can bypass the problem by making it a transfer tax thing. When you sell, all your taxes come due through the change in price. For inheritances, you re-assess and consider it a sale. If the price went up lots, the kids can pay the tax and keep it, or they can sell the property and pay off the taxes.

aey 7y ago
Transfer tax is totally fine. But governments that try to get between families will end up on the loosing end. What inevitably happens is that the rich get loopholes and the middle class pays. At least in California everyone gets the same deal.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  In practice, California's method entrenches wealth.
  - aey 7y ago
    Does it? Nothing to do with that massive tech industry? Seattle is a socialist paradise I take it? If you can get all the Google engineers to go on strike unless Mountain View agrees to build 50,000 homes, it will be done over night.
    - scarejunba 7y ago
      Honestly don't know what you're on about. Grandfathered-in property taxes definitely entrench wealth more than "everyone pays current rate" or "everyone pays past rate". I'm not trying to explain housing prices here. I'm talking about the innate behaviour of Prop 13.