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Pragmatically you have a good point, but technically it's wrong. There are technical solutions to almost all of these issues, and if not, or you can avoid using

by bo1024 8y ago

Pragmatically you have a good point, but technically it's wrong. There are technical solutions to almost all of these issues, and if not, or you can avoid using these sites and apps. I'm not arguing for one course of action or another, just saying, technical solutions exist. For example, an alternative to government regulation could be government funding of libre software and tools that block ads, trackers, third-party cookies, etc.

AlexandrB 8y ago
> ...tools that block ads, trackers, third-party cookies, etc. This is an arms race that I’ve watched privacy advocates slowly lose for the last 15 years. Between dom randomization, browser fingerprinting, and the extremely popular reCaptcha Google’s tracking feels especially inescapable by technological means. On phones the situation is often even worse[1] because of a more opaque and restricted OS environment. [1] https://www.ibtimes.com/these-apps-send-data-facebook-without-you-knowing-it-2747688 https://www.ibtimes.com/these-apps-send-data-facebook-withou...
- bo1024 8y ago
  I agree, but I face and overcome these issues every day via browser plugins, not installing sketchy apps, and not going to sites locked behind reCaptcha. Again, my point isn't that it's easy, my point is that it's possible, therefore, we have hope of someday making it easy. As a society we haven't even tried yet, only some fringe people donating their time, so perhaps we should support them instead of or in addition to clamoring for regulation.
- JonathanMerklin 8y ago
  Aside: can you (or someone) elaborate on or describe "DOM randomization" as it pertains to tracking? Googling that phrase seems to only take me in the direction of Javascript Math.random() documentation and other generic information on randomness as a whole.
  - krageon 8y ago
    It means they set the page up in such a way that all the classes/ID's are hashes are unique on every page load. This means you cannot have display filtering rules for these things (at least, not easily). Truly top-tier malice also puts tracking logic behind a reverse proxy that delivers randomised URLs, so you also cannot filter network requests.
908087 8y ago
What's the technical solution to Facebook creating shadow profiles of non-users based on data collected from users (friends/family/associates), data brokers, public records, etc?
- bo1024 8y ago
  Great point -- that's why I put the "almost" in "almost all". Nothing you change on your own device prevents other people giving information about you. On the other hand, if we move toward a world where being secure and protective of one's own data is the technological default, I expect we would see a lot less of things like "give Facebook access to my contact list".
itronitron 8y ago
no, you can't avoid using these sites and apps because they don't disclose up front that they are using facebook or other 3rd party trackers
- bo1024 8y ago
  For websites, there are tools that don't give the site the option unless asked. There are also firewalls and things like that blocking all traffic to certain trackers.
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    But there isn't any way to block them from gathering data about you from non-internet and third-party sources.

by bo1024 8y ago

AlexandrB 8y ago

> ...tools that block ads, trackers, third-party cookies, etc. This is an arms race that I’ve watched privacy advocates slowly lose for the last 15 years. Between dom randomization, browser fingerprinting, and the extremely popular reCaptcha Google’s tracking feels especially inescapable by technological means. On phones the situation is often even worse[1] because of a more opaque and restricted OS environment. [1] https://www.ibtimes.com/these-apps-send-data-facebook-without-you-knowing-it-2747688 https://www.ibtimes.com/these-apps-send-data-facebook-withou...

bo1024 8y ago
I agree, but I face and overcome these issues every day via browser plugins, not installing sketchy apps, and not going to sites locked behind reCaptcha. Again, my point isn't that it's easy, my point is that it's possible, therefore, we have hope of someday making it easy. As a society we haven't even tried yet, only some fringe people donating their time, so perhaps we should support them instead of or in addition to clamoring for regulation.
JonathanMerklin 8y ago
Aside: can you (or someone) elaborate on or describe "DOM randomization" as it pertains to tracking? Googling that phrase seems to only take me in the direction of Javascript Math.random() documentation and other generic information on randomness as a whole.
- krageon 8y ago
  It means they set the page up in such a way that all the classes/ID's are hashes are unique on every page load. This means you cannot have display filtering rules for these things (at least, not easily). Truly top-tier malice also puts tracking logic behind a reverse proxy that delivers randomised URLs, so you also cannot filter network requests.

908087 8y ago

What's the technical solution to Facebook creating shadow profiles of non-users based on data collected from users (friends/family/associates), data brokers, public records, etc?

bo1024 8y ago
Great point -- that's why I put the "almost" in "almost all". Nothing you change on your own device prevents other people giving information about you. On the other hand, if we move toward a world where being secure and protective of one's own data is the technological default, I expect we would see a lot less of things like "give Facebook access to my contact list".

itronitron 8y ago

no, you can't avoid using these sites and apps because they don't disclose up front that they are using facebook or other 3rd party trackers

bo1024 8y ago
For websites, there are tools that don't give the site the option unless asked. There are also firewalls and things like that blocking all traffic to certain trackers.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  But there isn't any way to block them from gathering data about you from non-internet and third-party sources.