4 ms·

But this is normal for some highly attractive areas. Looking at the U.S. as a whole, situation is pretty much normal - housing is very affordable.

Spooky23 8y ago
This is changing as income stagnates and loans remain cheap and too easy to get. Our whole fiscal policy is about printing money through home ownership. It’s creating all sorts of bad behaviors.
patrickg_zill 8y ago
Housing is not affordable in many areas of the United States, after you adjust for local wages.
munificent 8y ago
If you take a sample of all houses across the US and look only at their prices, yes, there's lots of affordable housing. But that picture ignores demographic shifts and jobs. If you look at the prices of houses relative to jobs available in the area, the picture is much worse. In small towns and rural areas, there's lots of really cheap houses. In the town I grew up, you can find tolerable houses for sale for $100k. But there are no jobs there. Even at that low price, you're unlikely to be able to afford it at any sort of local wage. Meanwhile, in the city where I live now, the median home price is $750,000. If you aren't in one of a shrinking number of vital industries like tech, that's also unaffordable. Over the years, I've watched friend after friend get priced out of the city. The main problem I see is that jobs are moving much faster than physical infrastructure and housing can keep up with.
- anovikov 8y ago
  But if someone is priced out, someone else come in right? Definitely the population of these places does not fall, it rises. What's the problem if some people have to leave?
  - DFHippie 8y ago
    Certain segments of the economy get priced out of the area. If you want to go to a restaurant, there need to be places for the waiters and cooks to live. If you want someone to pick up the trash, there need to be homes for garbagemen. A hospital needs nurses, janitors, and receptionists as well as doctors.
    - anovikov 8y ago
      How technically do people who own their homes outright, get 'priced out'? Just due to the real estate tax? Anyway, they get priced out, but they pocket hundreds of thousands or millions of free money from insane appreciation of their homes. And can start a new life in a cheaper place - probably getting about same money for the same job - but with whole lot of money in the pocket. Why should we feel sorry for them?
      - munificent 8y ago
        I think a few things happen that can cause even people who already own homes to get effectively priced out: 1. Through life circumstances, they need to move. The most common case is when they have kids and need a bigger home, but sometimes they need/want to move closer to a new job elsewhere in the city, neighborhoods change in ways they don't like, kids move out and they want to downsize, etc. 2. Property taxes do go up, yes. 3. When real estate goes up, everything else goes up too. People that can afford more expensive homes also generally have more disposable income. So they influence prices in the market and food, restaurants, services, daycare, etc. all get more expensive. > And can start a new life in a cheaper place - probably getting about same money for the same job - but with whole lot of money in the pocket. This is a thing, yes. You see older people move away from the city once their kids move out. When your kids are young, it's good to be in a city and stay put so that they can get a good stable school, long-term friends, and access to lots of learning experiences. Once the kids have left, though, that all matters less. But there is a cost to that. Uprooting and moving means leaving behind friends and familiar places. Diminished friendship among the elderly is one of the causes of suicide and lower life expectancy. It may mean moving farther from their own children. For example, I live in Seattle. My mother-in-law used to be a twenty minute drive. We spent a lot of time with her and she spent lots of time with her grandkids. Every year, the rent went up on her apartment until she couldn't afford it. She moved out to the country. It's a beautiful house, but it's an hour away, so we see her much less often, and that's a real loss to all of us. > Why should we feel sorry for them? I think that's a shallow way to look at it. We should empathize with them, with both the good and bad parts of their experience. Overall, I think it probably is a net win to have cities be mostly oriented towards professionals and parents and that it helps balance the demographic distribution of people in the US to have older people move to rural areas. But there are downsides too.
mistrial9 8y ago
this offhand opinion is not substantiated in "The State of the Nation's Housing" 2017, published by the Joint Center for Housing Studies of Harvard University

Spooky23 8y ago

This is changing as income stagnates and loans remain cheap and too easy to get. Our whole fiscal policy is about printing money through home ownership. It’s creating all sorts of bad behaviors.

patrickg_zill 8y ago

Housing is not affordable in many areas of the United States, after you adjust for local wages.

munificent 8y ago

If you take a sample of all houses across the US and look only at their prices, yes, there's lots of affordable housing. But that picture ignores demographic shifts and jobs. If you look at the prices of houses relative to jobs available in the area, the picture is much worse. In small towns and rural areas, there's lots of really cheap houses. In the town I grew up, you can find tolerable houses for sale for $100k. But there are no jobs there. Even at that low price, you're unlikely to be able to afford it at any sort of local wage. Meanwhile, in the city where I live now, the median home price is $750,000. If you aren't in one of a shrinking number of vital industries like tech, that's also unaffordable. Over the years, I've watched friend after friend get priced out of the city. The main problem I see is that jobs are moving much faster than physical infrastructure and housing can keep up with.

anovikov 8y ago
But if someone is priced out, someone else come in right? Definitely the population of these places does not fall, it rises. What's the problem if some people have to leave?
- DFHippie 8y ago
  Certain segments of the economy get priced out of the area. If you want to go to a restaurant, there need to be places for the waiters and cooks to live. If you want someone to pick up the trash, there need to be homes for garbagemen. A hospital needs nurses, janitors, and receptionists as well as doctors.
  - anovikov 8y ago
    How technically do people who own their homes outright, get 'priced out'? Just due to the real estate tax? Anyway, they get priced out, but they pocket hundreds of thousands or millions of free money from insane appreciation of their homes. And can start a new life in a cheaper place - probably getting about same money for the same job - but with whole lot of money in the pocket. Why should we feel sorry for them?
    - munificent 8y ago
      I think a few things happen that can cause even people who already own homes to get effectively priced out: 1. Through life circumstances, they need to move. The most common case is when they have kids and need a bigger home, but sometimes they need/want to move closer to a new job elsewhere in the city, neighborhoods change in ways they don't like, kids move out and they want to downsize, etc. 2. Property taxes do go up, yes. 3. When real estate goes up, everything else goes up too. People that can afford more expensive homes also generally have more disposable income. So they influence prices in the market and food, restaurants, services, daycare, etc. all get more expensive. > And can start a new life in a cheaper place - probably getting about same money for the same job - but with whole lot of money in the pocket. This is a thing, yes. You see older people move away from the city once their kids move out. When your kids are young, it's good to be in a city and stay put so that they can get a good stable school, long-term friends, and access to lots of learning experiences. Once the kids have left, though, that all matters less. But there is a cost to that. Uprooting and moving means leaving behind friends and familiar places. Diminished friendship among the elderly is one of the causes of suicide and lower life expectancy. It may mean moving farther from their own children. For example, I live in Seattle. My mother-in-law used to be a twenty minute drive. We spent a lot of time with her and she spent lots of time with her grandkids. Every year, the rent went up on her apartment until she couldn't afford it. She moved out to the country. It's a beautiful house, but it's an hour away, so we see her much less often, and that's a real loss to all of us. > Why should we feel sorry for them? I think that's a shallow way to look at it. We should empathize with them, with both the good and bad parts of their experience. Overall, I think it probably is a net win to have cities be mostly oriented towards professionals and parents and that it helps balance the demographic distribution of people in the US to have older people move to rural areas. But there are downsides too.

mistrial9 8y ago

this offhand opinion is not substantiated in "The State of the Nation's Housing" 2017, published by the Joint Center for Housing Studies of Harvard University