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Reddit back in the day: bans /r/fatpeoplehate, /r/coontown, /r/jailbait, and other awful subreddits. Reddit today: effectively bans (quarantines) /r/waternigga

Reddit back in the day: bans /r/fatpeoplehate, /r/coontown, /r/jailbait, and other awful subreddits. Reddit today: effectively bans (quarantines) /r/waterniggas simply because of the subreddit's title. It was quite literally a joke subreddit about being hydrated. Doesn't ban subreddits like /r/hapas. Edit: The problem with reddit is that it's wildly inconsistent about banning subreddits. Insane subreddits can exist for years, but only will get banned once they start to become popular enough that they start to get noticed. A fair amount amount of people went from reddit to voat because at the time voat was new, had signups open, and advertised itself on free speech. Note that I DO NOT support the likes of voat- I am describing the event that happened. edit; changed substantial to fair amount

rectangleboy 7y ago
Substantial?
- intertextuality 7y ago
  Substantial enough that voat turned to shit right after. I was looking into it at the time, but it got way worse after the banwaves.
sagichmal 7y ago
> A substantial amount of people went from reddit to voat because at the time voat was new, had signups open, and advertised itself on free speech. Luckily, we're collectively beginning to grow past the naïve belief that free speech is a virtue in itself, an ends, and understand it properly as a means, a tool, which we're all obliged to use ethically and responsibly to make our society better.
- intertextuality 7y ago
  I agree. Voat basically instantly became a cesspool after the major banwave. In theory it would work but in practice places that are all about "free speech" tend to just attract complete and utter assholes.
- speechthrowa24 7y ago
  No, “we” are not. Would-be totalitarians like you may have a desperate desire to re-frame discussion around speech into an argument over its perceived utility, but those who actually understand and care about liberty aren’t fooled. Your post is gross ethical deficiency masquerading as self-aggrandizing condescension.
- lsd5you 7y ago
  This feels to me like hubris, a kind of 'end of history' prediction that we have finally progressed to at least the beginnings of a final moral order. Personally I don't believe this to be the case, and the ways it can go wrong will leave us wishing that freedom of speech protection had not been eroded.
  - intertextuality 7y ago
    No one is eroding anything, please don't be melodramatic. Free speech is a protection from the government, not products offered by corporations; end of story. You are free to not use reddit, or create your own reddit.
    - CM30 7y ago
      No, that's the first amendment. It does not equal freedom of speech, and the US constitution is not the be all and end all on how rights like that work. There's plenty of material in the philosophical world about freedom of speech in regards to censorship by private parties and other people.
      - intertextuality 7y ago
        Well, you can get as philosophical as you want. In the real world, for American companies and services, it comes down to basically doing what they want. There is no real argument that a company like Reddit must adhere to free speech. No one forces you to use facebook, reddit, or any other website.
      - amanaplanacanal 7y ago
        I like free speech, for the most part, but if it means I can't boot somebody from my house when they are being an asshole, then I am 100% against it. I think most people's idea of free speech doesn't align with what you are saying.
        CM30 7y ago
        Well the concept of free speech I mentioned wasn't 'anyone can say anything anywhere with no consequences', since that's something practically no one wants for obvious reasons. Obviously you should be allowed to boot people from your house for being an asshole. And many businesses should probably also have the same right. But there's also the ambiguities that mean it should be as simple as 'private property overrides everything else'. Some companies are utilities, and can't dictate whether someone can use their service based on personal views (electricity companies, water companies, telephone networks, etc). Sometimes someone's role means they can't be that selective about what they hear, like how a judge found it was unconstitutional for Trump to block people on Twitter. And there are issues about either public vs private property (like for company towns) or instances where a company is so large and has such a huge share of the market (like a monopoly) that you could argue whether they should be able to pick and choose what they like.
antihero 7y ago
And it turns out that yes, voat and gab.ai are both filled with the utter dregs of society. Is this "free speech" positive hangout a wonderful paradise full of intellectuals and idealists? No, just a bunch of racist conspiracy nut trash.
- intertextuality 7y ago
  Exactly. I don't support voat or gab. I was just describing what happened. The problem with reddit is that it's wildly inconsistent about banning subreddits. Subreddits like these can exist for years, but only will get banned once they start to become popular enough that they start to get noticed.
  - wpietri 7y ago
    That sounds perfectly consistent to me. Stuff that doesn't matter gets ignored. Stuff that does gets the attention of staff, who then apply rules. It also sounds reasonable to me. At small scales, especially with novices, it's good to let people experiment, find their voices, build the right audience. But once something's of a certain size, it's unlikely to change its character much.
    - intertextuality 7y ago
      > it's good to let people experiment, find their voices, build the right audience. That's not how subreddits work, though, since they require a a name and almost always have mods that shape the content. /r/waterniggas at 300 people is basically the same at 20,000 people. So if the rule is subreddits should not have "nigga" in the title, then all subreddits with that name should be quarantined (or not allow the names to contain that word). Subreddits don't tend to change topics or "voices" but they can and do worsen in quality. Instead of posts with original concept C being upvoted, posts with content similar to C but not really get upvoted by the more general audience that comes with larger subscribers. I think /r/bonehurtingjuice is a pretty good example. At first it was excellent but now basically any anti-joke (which is different than bone hurting juice jokes) gets upvoted there.
geofft 7y ago
Did anything happen with Voat, though? I hear frequently (just yesterday, in fact!) about terrorists radicalized on 8chan. I see screenshots of Gab quite often. I only hear about Voat in the context of "A few years ago, some people left Reddit." If the net effect is that certain people left Reddit for a platform inviting the worst of Reddit, and then didn't stay there either, that seems like a win.
- intertextuality 7y ago
  Voat just became a cesspool because it was all about the "free speech". So you had an influx of the worst of reddit + the sort of people who are attracted to free speech areas online. It just died off since then, since 1. nobody really quits reddit, and 2. the aforementioned events made voat culture, well, not great.
  - matz1 7y ago
    You call it cesspool because you either don't like it or disagree with it. Its a matter of perspective. Do you think the group of people you called cesspool will just accept that ? In their perspective by banning them, they are the one being oppressed. Of course they are going to fight back and try to create/move to alternative platform.
    - intertextuality 7y ago
      https://voat.co/v/Voat/3178819 https://voat.co/v/Voat/3178819 > Gas the kikes Race War Now is not an illegal threat. The supreme court has ruled that a threat needs a place and a time to be considered actionable or illegal. example: We're gassing the kikes at the Freemont Synagogue on 5th avenue, Tuesday. This is the most upvoted comment. We can say things like "it's a matter of perspective", but sometimes things are simply objectively shit. edit, to those of you who think I'm exaggerating, here is one comment in that thread out of many: "Fucking faggots...meanwhile Antifa gets run of every liberal city in the country while the nigs murder us daily...and we aren't even allowed to talk about clownworld." Pretty much any place on the internet that promotes itself solely on being a "free speech zone/place" is trash. Theoretically they should be fine but in practice they just always attract assholes and people who want to say very edgy things. Someone should coin it, "the law of internet free speech zones" or something. It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing. Proper places of discussion don't have comments like "gas the kikes isn't technically hate speech so we should be allowed to say it here". You can always go ahead and host such a place if you want, but I'll stick to HN, Tildes, and Reddit instead so I can have reasonable discussion.
p49k 7y ago
It was a disingenuous excuse for people to use a racial slur anytime someone mentioned the word “water” to the point where it appeared almost any time someone used the word in any context for any reason. It’s ridiculous how many people can’t control themselves when they think they have a thin excuse to cover their terrible behavior.
- 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
  I'm not American but I've been told the word nigga is not the n word. Do I have a wrong impression about it? I'm surprised a bit because the mainstream music is filled with the word nigga but also the n word. Isn't it workings against the idea of not using these words?
  - wpietri 7y ago
    It's contextual. Many slurs have been reclaimed by the communities that they have been applied to. E.g., as a mild example, terms like "nerd" and "geek" were pejoratives that were adopted and reworked. E.g., Geek Pride: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Pride_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Pride_Day As with most of these slurs, positive in-group use is ok, but negative out-group use is still generally seen as abusive. I might talk about my geeky ways or refer to my fellow geeks. But I'd still bristle at non-geeks using the term in its original pejorative sense. The N word is of course much more extreme given America's ugly, unresolved history around race, but it's the same rough deal.
    - 0815test 7y ago
      > The N word is of course much more extreme given America's ugly, unresolved history around race, but it's the same rough deal. I think this is quite dubious. "Nerd" and "geek" or even "freak" were never pejoratives in the way that the other word was. You could sympathetically say of someone, even as an outsider "He's a bit of a nerd/geek". But it would make no sense for one who was sympathetic to say something like "he's a bit of a "-- well, you get the idea. (This is also why I don't even claim or pretend that I'll ever understand this whole "reclamation" deal. I do accept that free speech is a thing and that a social ingroup can do whatever they want amongst themselves, but I still find it somewhat in poor taste, and counterproductive to its goal.)
dingo_bat 7y ago
It's a classic example 9f slippery slope.
anon558834 7y ago
/r/hapas seems to be filled with more self-pity than hate. Reading the comments, these are actually mixed-raced kids talking about the racism they face from not only their peers, but also their own family.
- intertextuality 7y ago
  The sub demonizes asian women and white men. It's exactly like /r/incels (which got banned) except they blame on it on their race.

rectangleboy 7y ago

Substantial?

intertextuality 7y ago
Substantial enough that voat turned to shit right after. I was looking into it at the time, but it got way worse after the banwaves.

sagichmal 7y ago

> A substantial amount of people went from reddit to voat because at the time voat was new, had signups open, and advertised itself on free speech. Luckily, we're collectively beginning to grow past the naïve belief that free speech is a virtue in itself, an ends, and understand it properly as a means, a tool, which we're all obliged to use ethically and responsibly to make our society better.

intertextuality 7y ago
I agree. Voat basically instantly became a cesspool after the major banwave. In theory it would work but in practice places that are all about "free speech" tend to just attract complete and utter assholes.
speechthrowa24 7y ago
No, “we” are not. Would-be totalitarians like you may have a desperate desire to re-frame discussion around speech into an argument over its perceived utility, but those who actually understand and care about liberty aren’t fooled. Your post is gross ethical deficiency masquerading as self-aggrandizing condescension.
lsd5you 7y ago
This feels to me like hubris, a kind of 'end of history' prediction that we have finally progressed to at least the beginnings of a final moral order. Personally I don't believe this to be the case, and the ways it can go wrong will leave us wishing that freedom of speech protection had not been eroded.
- intertextuality 7y ago
  No one is eroding anything, please don't be melodramatic. Free speech is a protection from the government, not products offered by corporations; end of story. You are free to not use reddit, or create your own reddit.
  - CM30 7y ago
    No, that's the first amendment. It does not equal freedom of speech, and the US constitution is not the be all and end all on how rights like that work. There's plenty of material in the philosophical world about freedom of speech in regards to censorship by private parties and other people.
    - intertextuality 7y ago
      Well, you can get as philosophical as you want. In the real world, for American companies and services, it comes down to basically doing what they want. There is no real argument that a company like Reddit must adhere to free speech. No one forces you to use facebook, reddit, or any other website.
    - amanaplanacanal 7y ago
      I like free speech, for the most part, but if it means I can't boot somebody from my house when they are being an asshole, then I am 100% against it. I think most people's idea of free speech doesn't align with what you are saying.
      - CM30 7y ago
        Well the concept of free speech I mentioned wasn't 'anyone can say anything anywhere with no consequences', since that's something practically no one wants for obvious reasons. Obviously you should be allowed to boot people from your house for being an asshole. And many businesses should probably also have the same right. But there's also the ambiguities that mean it should be as simple as 'private property overrides everything else'. Some companies are utilities, and can't dictate whether someone can use their service based on personal views (electricity companies, water companies, telephone networks, etc). Sometimes someone's role means they can't be that selective about what they hear, like how a judge found it was unconstitutional for Trump to block people on Twitter. And there are issues about either public vs private property (like for company towns) or instances where a company is so large and has such a huge share of the market (like a monopoly) that you could argue whether they should be able to pick and choose what they like.

antihero 7y ago

And it turns out that yes, voat and gab.ai are both filled with the utter dregs of society. Is this "free speech" positive hangout a wonderful paradise full of intellectuals and idealists? No, just a bunch of racist conspiracy nut trash.

intertextuality 7y ago
Exactly. I don't support voat or gab. I was just describing what happened. The problem with reddit is that it's wildly inconsistent about banning subreddits. Subreddits like these can exist for years, but only will get banned once they start to become popular enough that they start to get noticed.
- wpietri 7y ago
  That sounds perfectly consistent to me. Stuff that doesn't matter gets ignored. Stuff that does gets the attention of staff, who then apply rules. It also sounds reasonable to me. At small scales, especially with novices, it's good to let people experiment, find their voices, build the right audience. But once something's of a certain size, it's unlikely to change its character much.
  - intertextuality 7y ago
    > it's good to let people experiment, find their voices, build the right audience. That's not how subreddits work, though, since they require a a name and almost always have mods that shape the content. /r/waterniggas at 300 people is basically the same at 20,000 people. So if the rule is subreddits should not have "nigga" in the title, then all subreddits with that name should be quarantined (or not allow the names to contain that word). Subreddits don't tend to change topics or "voices" but they can and do worsen in quality. Instead of posts with original concept C being upvoted, posts with content similar to C but not really get upvoted by the more general audience that comes with larger subscribers. I think /r/bonehurtingjuice is a pretty good example. At first it was excellent but now basically any anti-joke (which is different than bone hurting juice jokes) gets upvoted there.

geofft 7y ago

Did anything happen with Voat, though? I hear frequently (just yesterday, in fact!) about terrorists radicalized on 8chan. I see screenshots of Gab quite often. I only hear about Voat in the context of "A few years ago, some people left Reddit." If the net effect is that certain people left Reddit for a platform inviting the worst of Reddit, and then didn't stay there either, that seems like a win.

intertextuality 7y ago
Voat just became a cesspool because it was all about the "free speech". So you had an influx of the worst of reddit + the sort of people who are attracted to free speech areas online. It just died off since then, since 1. nobody really quits reddit, and 2. the aforementioned events made voat culture, well, not great.
- matz1 7y ago
  You call it cesspool because you either don't like it or disagree with it. Its a matter of perspective. Do you think the group of people you called cesspool will just accept that ? In their perspective by banning them, they are the one being oppressed. Of course they are going to fight back and try to create/move to alternative platform.
  - intertextuality 7y ago
    https://voat.co/v/Voat/3178819 https://voat.co/v/Voat/3178819 > Gas the kikes Race War Now is not an illegal threat. The supreme court has ruled that a threat needs a place and a time to be considered actionable or illegal. example: We're gassing the kikes at the Freemont Synagogue on 5th avenue, Tuesday. This is the most upvoted comment. We can say things like "it's a matter of perspective", but sometimes things are simply objectively shit. edit, to those of you who think I'm exaggerating, here is one comment in that thread out of many: "Fucking faggots...meanwhile Antifa gets run of every liberal city in the country while the nigs murder us daily...and we aren't even allowed to talk about clownworld." Pretty much any place on the internet that promotes itself solely on being a "free speech zone/place" is trash. Theoretically they should be fine but in practice they just always attract assholes and people who want to say very edgy things. Someone should coin it, "the law of internet free speech zones" or something. It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing. Proper places of discussion don't have comments like "gas the kikes isn't technically hate speech so we should be allowed to say it here". You can always go ahead and host such a place if you want, but I'll stick to HN, Tildes, and Reddit instead so I can have reasonable discussion.

p49k 7y ago

It was a disingenuous excuse for people to use a racial slur anytime someone mentioned the word “water” to the point where it appeared almost any time someone used the word in any context for any reason. It’s ridiculous how many people can’t control themselves when they think they have a thin excuse to cover their terrible behavior.

9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
I'm not American but I've been told the word nigga is not the n word. Do I have a wrong impression about it? I'm surprised a bit because the mainstream music is filled with the word nigga but also the n word. Isn't it workings against the idea of not using these words?
- wpietri 7y ago
  It's contextual. Many slurs have been reclaimed by the communities that they have been applied to. E.g., as a mild example, terms like "nerd" and "geek" were pejoratives that were adopted and reworked. E.g., Geek Pride: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Pride_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Pride_Day As with most of these slurs, positive in-group use is ok, but negative out-group use is still generally seen as abusive. I might talk about my geeky ways or refer to my fellow geeks. But I'd still bristle at non-geeks using the term in its original pejorative sense. The N word is of course much more extreme given America's ugly, unresolved history around race, but it's the same rough deal.
  - 0815test 7y ago
    > The N word is of course much more extreme given America's ugly, unresolved history around race, but it's the same rough deal. I think this is quite dubious. "Nerd" and "geek" or even "freak" were never pejoratives in the way that the other word was. You could sympathetically say of someone, even as an outsider "He's a bit of a nerd/geek". But it would make no sense for one who was sympathetic to say something like "he's a bit of a "-- well, you get the idea. (This is also why I don't even claim or pretend that I'll ever understand this whole "reclamation" deal. I do accept that free speech is a thing and that a social ingroup can do whatever they want amongst themselves, but I still find it somewhat in poor taste, and counterproductive to its goal.)

dingo_bat 7y ago

It's a classic example 9f slippery slope.

anon558834 7y ago

/r/hapas seems to be filled with more self-pity than hate. Reading the comments, these are actually mixed-raced kids talking about the racism they face from not only their peers, but also their own family.

intertextuality 7y ago
The sub demonizes asian women and white men. It's exactly like /r/incels (which got banned) except they blame on it on their race.