18 ms·
Freelancer.com stole from me and ruined my life
- himynameisdom 7y agoThere are two (or more) sides to every story. Would love to get a full 360 perspective on this scenario.
- brink 7y agoDoes this really seem that incredible? Youtube marginalizes their users to this degree every day, and I would not imagine that they are the only internet company doing so.
- dmitrygr 7y agoNormally I'm the first to shout the same, but given how many similar stories about freelancer.com exist, I'm leaning toward believing this by default
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ivanstojic 7y agoI did a lot of work on similar freelancing sites in the 2000s. While it is true that there is always more than one side to the story, there’s also a massive power imbalance with these services. Most of the workers come from outside of the US, work for already ridiculously low fees, and they have no recourse if they do end up having their payments cancelled or their accounts frozen / locked. It’s not the easiest way to make a living.
- devoply 7y agoIt's an incredibly stupid way to make a living and all the workers there should unionize and quit using sites like that.
- ivanstojic 7y agoSure, but look at the flip side: it’s a way for people from tiny, remote countries to get access to an integrated market of software projects, and a payment platform. The payment part in particular is lucrative for that population.
- secretfreelance 7y agoI'm strongly against tariffs, but when it comes to labor, I believe we should not allow companies to hire or contract out labor in countries which do not follow US labor laws. It's a race to the bottom otherwise, an unfair competition which hurts US workers and doesn't truly solve the problems faced by those in the other country.
- ivanstojic 7y agoYour colonialism is showing. There are two assumptions here that I’d like to point out: that the US labor laws are the best worldwide, and that there is an inherent problem in other countries that would be solved if they just adhered to the US laws. US historically had, and still has a large number of cases (either legal or just public discourse) of employers treating their employees unjustly, unfairly or with malice, despite all of the legal protection that US provides. There are always edge cases and loopholes. That said, I do believe that to an extent, the precedent based legal system of US trumps European style jurisprudence systems. Secondly, there is no evidence that by and large the workers are treated better in the US, or that other counties are clearly inferior. International employee engagement is pretty close to the world average in most modern countries.
- jdubz79 7y agoIf you can land a contract for development work on freelancer.com you can find a decent paying job for the same work. Freelancer.com provides nothing, and takes money out of your pocket.
- ivanstojic 7y agoFor a lot of freelancers in smaller countries, these sites provide a way to accept payments internationally and get access to a very big job market. There is some value they provide - but they enforce their place in the food chain harshly.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- x0x0 7y agoThat's not true at all. We spent $100k on upwork. The slightly lower rates are nice, but the value is the contractor rep so we don't get ripped off and dealing with moving money. Note that moving money requires more than physical xfer, but also the legal structures and corps and whatever else to make sure we comply with all relevant laws, both here and abroad. The latter is not a trivial bit of work. Without upwork, we would not be using contractors in Russia or Argentina.
- prewett 7y agoIt sounds like what you are saying is UpWork provides great value for businesses looking to hire inexpensive contractors. For US-based contractors, which I assume your parent poster might be, it doesn't sound like they provide such great value. At least, none of your reasons help the contractor any. And being in a system where they can easily be underbid by overseas labor doesn't sound so fun, either.
- pvaldes 7y ago> Without upwork, we would not be using contractors in Russia or Argentina. >> what you are saying is UpWork provides great value for businesses looking to hire inexpensive contractors Or translators from Russian and Spanish, people can hire overseas for several different reasons.
- VonGuard 7y agoSmall Claims Court
- ivanstojic 7y agoA large majority of people providing work on these sites is very far from any country where such a notion exists.
- Smerity 7y agoDisclosure: I worked for Freelancer.com seven or eight years ago back in Australia and know the founder. This is a "new" post from an old and now deleted post [1] by the same author. In the initial post [1] they state "I've been a member in this platform for over 5 years". In the new post they state "I have worked on this platform for over 7". The initial now deleted post [1] was posted two years ago. Make of that what you will. Edit: I was hoping HN would actually read the deleted post too and/or assume I didn't have a nefarious motive. It's from the same author, isn't a repost, the story has an entirely different fact pattern and the deletion of the previous story (with no reference to it when it was previously posted on HN at [2]) is at least odd at best. I merely wanted to raise the possibility that an unsourced post is potentially not the best thing with which to sharpen knives. I literally just wanted to add this data point to the discussion, that's all =[ [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20171104123112/https://www.trustpilot.com/reviews/59fdae7d31302a07249dc4fe https://web.archive.org/web/20171104123112/https://www.trust... [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15624677 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15624677
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- nraynaud 7y agoI am confused by your message. Their story checks out with the dates, doesn't it?
- secretfreelance 7y agoWhat I make of that is 5 + 2 = 7, which of course surprises no one.
- MivLives 7y agoI think the implication is that the poster has continued to work there for two more years despite still having the same complaint.
- secretfreelance 7y ago
- ishaanbahal 7y agoWell, now its 404.
- danso 7y agoLooks like folks have snapshotted it: http://archive.is/https://www.trustpilot.com/reviews/5cc32fe1a8436908c40f60eb http://archive.is/https://www.trustpilot.com/reviews/5cc32fe...
- sm4rk0 7y agoHere's the original: AladinBS 1 review 29 minutes ago STAY AWAY FROM FREELANCER, STAY AWAY!!!!!! THIS IS A WARNING TO ANYONE WHO USES FREELANCER, STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY!!! This company has screwed me over so many times and screwed so many developers and clients that it’s a mystery how they haven't been shut down yet. It all started with a simple contract i received, and once i received an initial payment of $1300, my account got limited and frozen, i contacted them asking about the reason behind this, and they just simply told me it was because of outside communication, to which i responded that it's very normal call to go over everything, that is a business standard, and the contract went through the platform and so did the payment, so there was no reason behind these extreme majors they took. The money was frozen and they told me that it would stay that way, up until they closed my account for good one week after with a simple email, saying that they closed my account. I have worked on this platform for over 7 years, finished countless projects with full perfect five star reviews, never hurt anyone or hurt the platform in any way, and the only thing i did occasionally that was frowned upon was a call here or there to explain something to a client or to share my screen with them, and its not my fault that they did not provide these features on their platform and i had to use something else to make up for their short comings. In conclusion, i gave them 7 years of my life; they closed my account for nothing, stole from me, and took away my main source of living. I have not been able to even leave my house for the past week, and had to force myself to write this review, even as just a warning for people, and I’ll make sure that everyone hears about what happened to me.
- giarc 7y agoFrom what I can see... user lost $1300 and ability to use Freelancer.com. I'm not sure what lead to "not been able to even leave my house". Just move on and use Upwork.com.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- sm4rk0 7y agoAm I the only one to notice the rest of reviews? All of them seem generic with the same names I see in my spam directory: > cindi m was a great help. she fixed my issues right away and her bosses should give her a raise. cheers
- sm4rk0 7y agoForgot to mention: they are all 5-star reviews.
- jjjjjjjjjjjjjjj 7y agoYeah I read through them as well, looks a lot like astroturfing.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- csomar 7y agoI tried Freelancer.com for hiring. After a quite search and failure to find someone to do the job, I decided to pull out. They refused and did hold around $500 of my money there. They also ended up locking the account. That was many years ago. Needless to say, I stopped using these websites for good either ways (hiring or being hired).
- jjjjjjjjjjjjjjj 7y agoDoes anyone have the content of the review? Seems like it was removed.
- dewey 7y agoWhy is this random Trustpilot review suddenly on the frontpage? Is there anything I'm missing? People that had an issue with Freelancer.com just upvoting the headline?
- blueboo 7y agoIt also should be noted that Trustpilot itself is horribly gamed and its ratings should never be taken as a signal for trust. It can be useful if you think other ratings have been manipulated (i.e., Yelp) and you find it has a peerless Trustpilot rating -- yep, they're fakin' it
- itry2develop 7y agoI've used freelancer for design work several times with no issue. Concerning that they would lock peoples money up. I do get a number spam replies and even plagiarism from time to time, so I could see why they would kick some people out.
- jypepin 7y agoseems like the post has been deleted?
- loceng 7y agoThere are similar stories for Upwork (brand name after Odesk + Elance merger). I was literally blackmailed by an Upwork contractor who refused to release the already paid-for source code unless I gave them a 5-star rating. I notified the platform and they didn't care - and the solution was for the platform to prevent my ability to leave a review at all, making the contractor happy. That contractor/agency was still on the platform at least a year after it happened.
- gowld 7y agoThis is why escrow companies exist. They are specifically to handle the case where parties need to transact but can't risk trusting each other.
- ivanstojic 7y agoThese companies (freelancer, upwork/odesk) aren’t really escrow companies: they are scalpers of financial transactions they enable and provide.
- loceng 7y agoAnd it seems they've found they need to keep the supplier happy as there's plenty of demand, especially if you have all of the "5 star" ratings - whether legitimately earned or deceptive because of practices of bad actors including the platforms lack of integrity themselves.
- dannylandau 7y agoExact same issue happened to me as well. It was a Chinese iOS developer. Did an OK job, was planning to give him good reviews anyways, until he gave the condition to leave a 5-star review or no code. Got in touch with his team leader and matter was resolved quickly. Ended up leaving a negative review. Generally, had very positive experiences with Upwork and other platforms including Freelancer.com which I no longer use anymore.
- wolco 7y agoDidn't you have to release the milestone in order for the developer to be paid? Doesn't the rating part come after the contract is closed?
- FreeHugs 7y agoSomething seems wrong with this story. If your life depends on the projects you are participating in via a freelancing site, then you have clients. If Freelancer wrongly withheld the authors money, why didn't they contact their clients and tell them to make a stink? And why not deal with the clients via some other marketplace or payment method?
- Hoasi 7y agoSimilar story, different middleman company... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18427086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18427086 The point is, as a freelancer, you are on your own.
- Tempest1981 7y agoSimilar headline and discussion from 18 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15624677 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15624677 (355 comments)
- nickjj 7y agoThe next time you think about using a platform / marketplace for freelance work just repeat this to yourself: "I should spend a large portion of my life to become an expert in my craft, and then I should agree to have my privacy stripped away from me while I race to the bottom and undercut my competition because I will actively place myself into situations where I have the highest competition to ensure I receive the lowest rates. Lastly, I will bust my butt and bend the world to satisfy clients who take advantage of me." Then it starts to make total sense on what you should avoid them like the plague. Really, just put in the leg work and build up your own network[0]. It's so worth it. [0]: https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/how-to-start-a-successful-freelance-business-as-a-software-developer https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/how-to-start-a-successful-fre...
- duxup 7y agoAnd a good network helps you find the "good customers". Picking good customers / learning how to and etc is such an important thing... for everyone. Individuals and businesses alike, regardless if you're a freelancer or not.
- matz1 7y agoIts not for everyone.
- eropple 7y agoIt isn't--but if you aren't prepared to do it, the freelancer sites will eat you alive before you get off the ground anyway.
- VonGuard 7y agoSeriously, this guy knows what he is talking about. Building that network is hard and not fun, and if you are introverted, it's really tough. So do it online in IRC, Slack, or on open source projects or forums! 90% of a freelancer's job is finding their clients. The 10% that's the work is actually easy since you usually know what you're doing, and everything that is required. Finding clients is scary and difficult and uncomfortable. But it's 90% of the job, dammit! If you don't like that, likely you should find other ways of working.
- so_tired 7y agoAny low-cost freelancers here? (Mobile & Web UI) How much do u earn on these platforms ?! Also - i find it ridiculous that they try to enforce non-external-communication with the people u hire. I want to talk to these guys 5 times a day, share repositories, etc. Its weird
- ilaksh 7y agoI haven't used the platforms in a few years but I used to. I think the highest pay I ever managed was like $25 or maybe $40 per hour. It seemed pretty hard to get those projects though. I guess the convenience of having all of those potential contracts is a trade off with the fact that you are competing with everyone on Earth that signed up and looked at that web page. So people that have $100 rent in a small Indian village can and do bid extremely small amounts sometimes and they end up making much more than their friends in the village and are happy to have it. The reason they try to stop the external communication is because people go outside the site for projects once they have made a connection with a client. To me it's questionable whether it should be legal to force people to do all transactions on your platform. But from a business standpoint it is the aspect that has the most impact on how much cut they collect.
- hnruss 7y agoI stopped freelancing after someone sent me death threats for cancelling work on a $200 project that they kept increasing the scope of. Not worth it.
- johnmarcus 7y agorecently scammed by freelancer.com and it is already on Bank Of America's fraudulent businesses list. Correctly so, BofA refused to honor a $10 charge through my PayPal account freelancer.com was attempting to steal from me. That forced PayPal to drop my BofA checking account as a payment method. It wasn't too disruptive for me because I don't use PayPal all that much. Anyway, I convinced PayPal rather easily that i never agreed to pay freelancer.com anything and the charge was fraudulent. Just a warning, using freelancer.com in any capacity can have more downward side effect on your life then you think. You are doing business with, imho, a company that is likely surviving as a cleaner for laundered money, aka, a pure illegal enterprise.
- ryanmarsh 7y agoThe link is 404ing now.
- Creationer 7y agoI've tried hiring artists for video games, and the quotes from Upwork/Freelancer.com were about double the going rates (I understand that the platform fee of 20% contributes to part of that). I've had much better success with free, community-run forums instead: https://polycount.com/categories/artist-looking-for-work https://polycount.com/categories/artist-looking-for-work https://www.gamejobforum.com/ https://www.gamejobforum.com/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gameDevClassifieds/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gameDevClassifieds/
- rahuldottech 7y agoArchived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20190426163107/https://www.trustpilot.com/reviews/5cc32fe1a8436908c40f60eb https://web.archive.org/web/20190426163107/https://www.trust...
- mises 7y agoSeeing that the original has been deleted, would a moderator please update the link to this archived version?
- megous 7y agoNow, how would freelancer.com know that the people are communicating outside of the platform? I guess if you exchange contact info over their channels... Is that banned? What if you send encrypted messages via GPG? Or is that forbidden too? Just sending a public key for GPG, will reveal an e-mail address. How do you exchange passwords and other sensitive access info without encryption?
- tluyben2 7y agoThey normally do not act like this; they only go bezerk if they suspect you are paying someone outside the platform.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- danj 7y agoI have used e-lance and upwork to the tune of about $140,000 and in my last year of hiring on UpWork we plugged $36,000 through them. Generally they've been pretty good and usually fast and fair to act, though in all my time of using them I've only had 3 bad experiences, 2 of them were resolved quickly and well, the third was a shit show. I think a lot of people get screwed on UpWork because someone posts a shitty outline of a job and then expects the world to be delivered for $5. I don't operate like that, we treat it like hiring normally - we thoroughly interview and the spec is very detailed. The last contractor we hired was for firmware and an issue we had, we needed someone with Rockchip experience and someone who could work on it full time. We explained the problem and the spec of the job repeatedly to him and he agreed. We agreed a fee - a little higher than what we budgeted but honestly didn't care - we were getting this solved. Anyway fast forward and he has done about 50% of what we agreed - we ask him when can we get the next 50% he said when we pay him more - we said, that's not what we agreed, it's in the contract (on the job spec) in the UpWork messages (again reemphasized) and we agreed over phone calls and emails and he signed. He said he didn't care he wanted more money before he would complete it. At this point the firmware he has done is essentially useless to us without the last 50% so I go to UpWork and explain everything - hoping they would give him a nudge - we had everything outlined on their system - their response - you need to pay him. I was baffled. So I opened a credit card dispute to get the money back. UpWork's behaviour became down right embarassing. The disputed amount was in the range of about $1000 and they became so hilariously hostile, then angry, then sorry, then hostile, then derrogatory, and eventually demeaning (offering us $50 credit if we withdraw the dispute) we said no. They said they wouldclose our account - we said fine. How stupid of a company do you have to be - not only that - we had about $30,000 more lined up for the next 6 months - now we just go through our network and other job boards. We will NEVER use them again.
- pkaye 7y agoHow many hours of work was $1000?
- robocat 7y ago> The last contractor we hired was for firmware and an issue we had, we needed someone with Rockchip experience and someone who could work on it full time. "Full time" for $1000! And it was an "issue with Rockchip", which sounds exactly like a problem that could be easily specified but impossible to predict how many hours it would take to fix. GP seems like a rant from someone abusing a fixed price worker.
- egman_ekki 7y agoBtw, after having experience with certain car rental company on trustpilot, I don't really trust those ratings anymore. I posted a negative review, then was contacted by trustpilot to provide proof of what went wrong or trustpilot would remove the review in 7 days. I'm pretty sure that is not needed for positive ones...
- konart 7y agoPretty sure I've seen this in 2018.
- ccnafr 7y agoHope the guy doesn't get an Upwork account now. He'll be really screwed then.
- jshowa3 7y agoNever get payment through a third party if you don't expect something like this to happen. And its insane to freelance develop without contacting the customer/screen sharing outside the platform. Its amazing the guy lasted 7 years like this...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- disconnection 7y agoSales is a learnable skill, and in practice I found it straightforward to cut out the middlemen/women completely and avoid platforms and agents. I wrote a sales guide here, with all the tricks I picked up over the years. I'm not selling anything or have ads, I just want other coders to have this freedom, too: https://www.disconnectionist.com/blog/sales.html https://www.disconnectionist.com/blog/sales.html
- ilaksh 7y agoHere is a project attempting to provide a decentralized alternative to Freelancer and Upwork https://kleros.io https://kleros.io Here is another one https://www.cryptotask.org https://www.cryptotask.org
- tluyben2 7y agoDoes that make it better? Does it fix this kind of issue and how?