5 ms·

Fuck Intuit. Shame on engineers who work there.

Demiurge 7y ago
Really? This is a greedy policy, not an engineering decision. How many engineers have managers they disagree with? I'm sure you've always quit every company in such a situation?
- untog 7y ago
  No-one is saying engineers chose the company policy, they're saying that engineers are complicit by working on it. Someone had to but that no-index instruction on the page, and they knew what they were doing. We're lucky (at least at this moment in time) that engineers are in huge demand. If you're an engineer at an ethically compromised company you could change jobs within a few months, tops. If you haven't then, yes, it's going to affect my opinion of you.
  - Demiurge 7y ago
    That's ridiculous. Perhaps you can find in a few minutes, but I know plenty of people stuck in jobs they hate but can't find anything better. They are not quitting, and they can't move, because they have people that depend on them or other circumstances.
    - untog 7y ago
      Intuit is headquartered in Mountain View. No-one needs to move from there in order to secure a job an engineering job. If people depend on you then you can look for another job while keeping your current one - it's something I've done multiple times. And if you can't find a job in Mountain View then I certainly feel for you, but it may be time to take another look at your resume and work out what's going wrong.
  - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
    One of my friend's parents works at a company where a large percentage of the engineers / etc. are corrupt (think Boeing with its FAA certifications done by fellow engineers, but with all the engineers agreeing to not look at each other's stuff)- and he decided to stay there and continue to work, despite the corruption- if the company goes down or gets attacked by the Feds, he has a lot of proof to show that he wasn't part of the problem. He's also sort of doing that classical destroy-the-company-from-the-inside thing.
- mola 7y ago
  (software) Engineers in todays economy are privileged with the ability to choose their jobs. I think people with power should help fix wrongs inflicted on other people and not silently comply for a share of the pie. I turned down a few jobs I found immoral even though the compensation was substantially higher than the alternatives. Not everyone have this privilege, but when you do, I believe there's a moral obligation to use it.
  - thedragonline 7y ago
    I turned down contract work from a well-known telecom. The pay was great, unfortunately for them, I have no interest in helping them destroy your privacy. Of course, if I were desperate and had no runway, that would likely change the calculus. UBI would be a godsend in this regard.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > I'm sure you've always quit every company in such a situation? I have absolutely quit jobs because I had serious issues with the way my employer did business. I would again. It makes sleeping at night a lot easier.
  - Demiurge 7y ago
    Congratulations, very few people can say the same.
    - JohnFen 7y ago
      Maybe, maybe not. A not insignificant percentage of my colleagues can say the same. My point is that everyone can, and does, decide this sort of thing for themselves. Very few people are actually, no matter how much they may think they are, trapped -- particularly at this point in time in our industry. At worst, it's a matter of how much disruption and discomfort they're willing to put up with to adhere to their principles.
      - thedragonline 7y ago
        When most are sitting in the long tail of wealth/income distributions, then maybe is the likelier answer.
craftyguy 7y ago
I'd rather shame the government that allows Intuit to have their way with taxpayers. Intuit exists primarily because of the convoluted tax filing process in the US afterall..
- vernie 7y ago
  Intuit is actively involved in making the process as convoluted as possible.
  - craftyguy 7y ago
    Right, and they are only successful because a certain government allows them to be disproportionately influential... So my comment is still very much valid.
    - jakelazaroff 7y ago
      Shame is not zero-sum; surely there's enough for all parties here.
- ppseafield 7y ago
  Intuit lobbies to keep taxes complicated so they can continue to have a business model. https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-free-simple-hr-block-intuit-lobbying-against-it https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-fre...
  - ahallock 7y ago
    And this is surprising because? It would be surprising if they didn't do that, honestly. The government is at fault here for selling political power and not representing the interests of the people. We could boycott Intuit, I suppose, or use different products, but aside from that, the fault and source of the problem lies squarely with the government.
    - justwalt 7y ago

Really? This is a greedy policy, not an engineering decision. How many engineers have managers they disagree with? I'm sure you've always quit every company in such a situation?

untog 7y ago
No-one is saying engineers chose the company policy, they're saying that engineers are complicit by working on it. Someone had to but that no-index instruction on the page, and they knew what they were doing. We're lucky (at least at this moment in time) that engineers are in huge demand. If you're an engineer at an ethically compromised company you could change jobs within a few months, tops. If you haven't then, yes, it's going to affect my opinion of you.
- Demiurge 7y ago
  That's ridiculous. Perhaps you can find in a few minutes, but I know plenty of people stuck in jobs they hate but can't find anything better. They are not quitting, and they can't move, because they have people that depend on them or other circumstances.
  - untog 7y ago
    Intuit is headquartered in Mountain View. No-one needs to move from there in order to secure a job an engineering job. If people depend on you then you can look for another job while keeping your current one - it's something I've done multiple times. And if you can't find a job in Mountain View then I certainly feel for you, but it may be time to take another look at your resume and work out what's going wrong.
- HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
  One of my friend's parents works at a company where a large percentage of the engineers / etc. are corrupt (think Boeing with its FAA certifications done by fellow engineers, but with all the engineers agreeing to not look at each other's stuff)- and he decided to stay there and continue to work, despite the corruption- if the company goes down or gets attacked by the Feds, he has a lot of proof to show that he wasn't part of the problem. He's also sort of doing that classical destroy-the-company-from-the-inside thing.
mola 7y ago
(software) Engineers in todays economy are privileged with the ability to choose their jobs. I think people with power should help fix wrongs inflicted on other people and not silently comply for a share of the pie. I turned down a few jobs I found immoral even though the compensation was substantially higher than the alternatives. Not everyone have this privilege, but when you do, I believe there's a moral obligation to use it.
- thedragonline 7y ago
  I turned down contract work from a well-known telecom. The pay was great, unfortunately for them, I have no interest in helping them destroy your privacy. Of course, if I were desperate and had no runway, that would likely change the calculus. UBI would be a godsend in this regard.
JohnFen 7y ago
> I'm sure you've always quit every company in such a situation? I have absolutely quit jobs because I had serious issues with the way my employer did business. I would again. It makes sleeping at night a lot easier.
- Demiurge 7y ago
  Congratulations, very few people can say the same.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    Maybe, maybe not. A not insignificant percentage of my colleagues can say the same. My point is that everyone can, and does, decide this sort of thing for themselves. Very few people are actually, no matter how much they may think they are, trapped -- particularly at this point in time in our industry. At worst, it's a matter of how much disruption and discomfort they're willing to put up with to adhere to their principles.
    - thedragonline 7y ago
      When most are sitting in the long tail of wealth/income distributions, then maybe is the likelier answer.

craftyguy 7y ago

I'd rather shame the government that allows Intuit to have their way with taxpayers. Intuit exists primarily because of the convoluted tax filing process in the US afterall..

vernie 7y ago
Intuit is actively involved in making the process as convoluted as possible.
- craftyguy 7y ago
  Right, and they are only successful because a certain government allows them to be disproportionately influential... So my comment is still very much valid.
  - jakelazaroff 7y ago
    Shame is not zero-sum; surely there's enough for all parties here.
ppseafield 7y ago
Intuit lobbies to keep taxes complicated so they can continue to have a business model. https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-free-simple-hr-block-intuit-lobbying-against-it https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-fre...
- ahallock 7y ago
  And this is surprising because? It would be surprising if they didn't do that, honestly. The government is at fault here for selling political power and not representing the interests of the people. We could boycott Intuit, I suppose, or use different products, but aside from that, the fault and source of the problem lies squarely with the government.
  - justwalt 7y ago