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The end of my MBA program was a trip to China, with a week spent in Shanghai. a portion of our trip was meeting with the then CEO of China IBM and he toured us

The end of my MBA program was a trip to China, with a week spent in Shanghai. a portion of our trip was meeting with the then CEO of China IBM and he toured us through the most ambitious project I'd ever heard: the Chinese Government hired IBM to create a nationwide western medical infrastructure - they needed everything from the health science courses in high school, university majors, nursing and medical universities, and hospitals and pharmacies by the thousand. This was a giant jaw dropping ambitious effort, and from what we could see the entire effort was being executed with the latest organizational and educational models known at the time from the west. I thought it was like taking the entirety of the Harvard Review and attempting a mass implementation of all that thinking in a real world project. After the trip was over, I remember thinking that such forward thinking investment was going to make China unbeatable within my lifetime. Looks like that is becoming true already, 14 years later.

asark 8y ago
The US is strangled by responsibility-avoidance everywhere, public and private sector. Layers and layers of consultants and bureaucrats to make sure no-one ever makes a decision without being able to point a finger elsewhere, repeat recursively for each added layer. No one with the will and authority to call people on this behavior and cut through the BS—the people at the very top are doing it, too, in fact it's most of what they do—so it works, and so it keeps happening, on a larger and larger scale.
- 75dvtwin 8y ago
  I agree with you, @asark But I would change "..strangled by responsibility avoidance..' Into US business business are forced into culture of 'plausible deniability'. If you do not follow that culture, your business, if successful, will be virtually and very quickly devoured by lawyers or partisan politicians seeking their racketeering tax. Both of those professions essentially became licensed racketeers in the Western world. I would also build up on your premise, and say that it is not that China is advancing at incredible pace, it is that our own West Europe and US have been slowed down by the above internal nemeses.
hangonhn 8y ago
This is the dangerous allure of an authoritarian state and China has been here before -- many times. Replace "western medical infrastructure" with "a massive wall to keep the barbarians to the north out" or "a massive canal to connect the two rivers" and you'll get the same effect. Authoritarian states, which China really basically pioneered during the Qin dynasty, can accomplish great things when its powers are wielded correctly. The problem is that when the people or person in charge is incompetent, crazy, and/or lazy then the whole thing just goes to hell. The often tried and just as often unsuccessful solution is to have good court officials and properly educating the heir-apparent but the cycle of dynasties and the catastrophe that follow their overthrows suggests that it is not a good long term solution. In fact, these violent overthrows often erases many of the accomplishments of the peaceful periods. This is sort of the problem democracy solves: accountability allows the leader(s) to be changed in a non-violent way. The problem with democracies is that it is almost by definition very average in progress. It is slow and steady but the overall trend is positive. It takes a very long term view to appreciate the steadiness of progress in democracies. The US is on track to overtake the majority of Chinese dynasties in term of longevity.
- johntiger1 8y ago
  Just want to address one point: China (and the Qin dynasty) was definitely not a pioneer of authoritarian control!
- notfromhere 8y ago
  Authoritarianism is good when its good, and really bad when its bad. Democracy is good when its good, and okay when its bad. Democratic system are never the fastest way of getting something done, but seems to be the most consistently less-bad system for outcomes. The state that can build an entire medical infrastructure from scratch is also the same one that can build vast concentration camp systems far out in the provinces.
- intrasight 8y ago
  This is an important point. I agree. China will fail - and fail badly - in my lifetime - again. Authoritarianism failed them badly during the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward. "These policies led to social and economic disaster, but these failures were hidden by widespread exaggeration and deceitful reports. In short order, large resources were diverted to use on expensive new industrial operations, which, in turn, failed to produce much, and deprived the agricultural sector of urgently needed resources. An important result was a drastic decline in food output, which caused millions of deaths in the Great Chinese Famine." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward Sure, they'll not make that mistake again - but they'll make others just as egregious. It's what authoritarians do best.
westiseast 8y ago
Not to belittle your experience, but one of the key issues in an authoritarian state is that nobody is held to account. So, if you’re a politician or a big businessman, you can say whatever you like. We have a 3 year plan to eradicate X. We will completely redevelop the entire southern sector of the city and everyone will be rich and happy. And we’ll do it in 2 years. China does a lot and achieves a lot, but for example, each time you read something China related in the news, check how many times it says “China plans to....” or “Government announces plan to.....”

asark 8y ago

The US is strangled by responsibility-avoidance everywhere, public and private sector. Layers and layers of consultants and bureaucrats to make sure no-one ever makes a decision without being able to point a finger elsewhere, repeat recursively for each added layer. No one with the will and authority to call people on this behavior and cut through the BS—the people at the very top are doing it, too, in fact it's most of what they do—so it works, and so it keeps happening, on a larger and larger scale.

75dvtwin 8y ago
I agree with you, @asark But I would change "..strangled by responsibility avoidance..' Into US business business are forced into culture of 'plausible deniability'. If you do not follow that culture, your business, if successful, will be virtually and very quickly devoured by lawyers or partisan politicians seeking their racketeering tax. Both of those professions essentially became licensed racketeers in the Western world. I would also build up on your premise, and say that it is not that China is advancing at incredible pace, it is that our own West Europe and US have been slowed down by the above internal nemeses.

hangonhn 8y ago

This is the dangerous allure of an authoritarian state and China has been here before -- many times. Replace "western medical infrastructure" with "a massive wall to keep the barbarians to the north out" or "a massive canal to connect the two rivers" and you'll get the same effect. Authoritarian states, which China really basically pioneered during the Qin dynasty, can accomplish great things when its powers are wielded correctly. The problem is that when the people or person in charge is incompetent, crazy, and/or lazy then the whole thing just goes to hell. The often tried and just as often unsuccessful solution is to have good court officials and properly educating the heir-apparent but the cycle of dynasties and the catastrophe that follow their overthrows suggests that it is not a good long term solution. In fact, these violent overthrows often erases many of the accomplishments of the peaceful periods. This is sort of the problem democracy solves: accountability allows the leader(s) to be changed in a non-violent way. The problem with democracies is that it is almost by definition very average in progress. It is slow and steady but the overall trend is positive. It takes a very long term view to appreciate the steadiness of progress in democracies. The US is on track to overtake the majority of Chinese dynasties in term of longevity.

johntiger1 8y ago
Just want to address one point: China (and the Qin dynasty) was definitely not a pioneer of authoritarian control!
notfromhere 8y ago
Authoritarianism is good when its good, and really bad when its bad. Democracy is good when its good, and okay when its bad. Democratic system are never the fastest way of getting something done, but seems to be the most consistently less-bad system for outcomes. The state that can build an entire medical infrastructure from scratch is also the same one that can build vast concentration camp systems far out in the provinces.
intrasight 8y ago
This is an important point. I agree. China will fail - and fail badly - in my lifetime - again. Authoritarianism failed them badly during the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward. "These policies led to social and economic disaster, but these failures were hidden by widespread exaggeration and deceitful reports. In short order, large resources were diverted to use on expensive new industrial operations, which, in turn, failed to produce much, and deprived the agricultural sector of urgently needed resources. An important result was a drastic decline in food output, which caused millions of deaths in the Great Chinese Famine." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward Sure, they'll not make that mistake again - but they'll make others just as egregious. It's what authoritarians do best.

westiseast 8y ago

Not to belittle your experience, but one of the key issues in an authoritarian state is that nobody is held to account. So, if you’re a politician or a big businessman, you can say whatever you like. We have a 3 year plan to eradicate X. We will completely redevelop the entire southern sector of the city and everyone will be rich and happy. And we’ll do it in 2 years. China does a lot and achieves a lot, but for example, each time you read something China related in the news, check how many times it says “China plans to....” or “Government announces plan to.....”