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Lyft, Uber, Zoom, Beyond Meat and now, Slack Is there any benefit of Public at this point of time? or Just a trend to grab as much as Wallet share from the ave

by amrrs 8y ago

Lyft, Uber, Zoom, Beyond Meat and now, Slack Is there any benefit of Public at this point of time? or Just a trend to grab as much as Wallet share from the average investor?

bardworx 8y ago
Slack is doing a direct listing and aren't raising money via their IPO. This could be good for the average investor as the prices woun't be pumped up but the risk is that there was no price discovery.
btown 8y ago
Give investors liquidity before the inevitable economic downturn, without needing to sell the company.
CSMastermind 8y ago
The market is going to crash and everyone wants to cash out before it does.
- polote 8y ago
  But could also be the thing that will make the market crash nobody knows
  - prklmn 8y ago
    The S&P 500 by itself is valued at almost $24T (https://ycharts.com/indicators/sandp_500_market_cap https://ycharts.com/indicators/sandp_500_market_cap). A couple large companies going public and raising several billion dollars will not make the market crash. All of them listing at once is a symptom of where we are in the economic cycle, and where these companies are in their individual growth curves.
  - screye 8y ago
    I can see that happening. Loss making unicorns go public -> investor pressure builds to reach profitability -> none of them can deliver on promises in the short term -> public does not want to own these stocks anymore -> causes a frantic selling spree -> market crashes.
    - megous 8y ago
      Why would the market crash, and not just these few bad comapanies? What's systemic about the overhyped IRC clone or just another taxi service getting their fair value judged by public markets, that would cause a market crash?
      - komali2 8y ago
        Maybe it finally pushes the student loan crisis over the edge when an influx of unemployed tech workers are added to the tens of thousands defaulting on their loans?
        mfatica 8y ago
        Outside of silicon valley there's an extraordinary amount of unfilled tech positions. If they are unemployed it's likely their own fault.
        komali2 8y ago
        > If they are unemployed it's likely their own fault. Well hold on, I was just idly speculating, but I don't like this kind of thinking. There's a hundred and one reasons people can't leave a city, or the obstacle to leaving is too great. Off the top of my head, not wanting to uproot kids into a new school system, partner's job, disability that makes it extraordinarily difficult to move (away from whatever ADA stuff you've got set up at your apartment and commute flow you've got set up), need to stay near sick family, need to stay regional to a very specific doctor or healthcare facility, and that's just needs. A strong desire to stay in a local area due to history or just preference should be valid as well. I see this reasoning used to attack non-tech workers all the time and it bothers me.
      - est31 8y ago
        I doubt there will be a global stock market crash but a there can definitely be a burst of the second dot com bubble. It would be enough for one of the overvalued companies to go bankrupt to take them all down, e.g. Tesla (they certainly have liquidity problems).
- BurningFrog 8y ago
  What specifically will make the market crash?
  - freehunter 8y ago
    If nothing else, the cycle of the market. Might not be this year, might not be next year, might not be the year after, but it's inevitable and we're coming due. Could happen at any time for any reason, but it will happen. If you're thinking of going public, you want to get in before that happens.
  - shostack 8y ago
    The GOP's tax heist that has led to dumping rocket fuel on an already insanely hot market, leading to stock buybacks that give the illusion of growth and mask warning signs, coupled with removing the safety net of having the ability to reduce taxes when things do start declining. We're in for a rough one, and it is VERY intentional this time.
fratlas 8y ago
I've been seeing a lot of calls about this incoming downturn (especially HN), does anyone have any articles/analysis they can point me to? Would love to read up on the state of it.
- 0xDEFC0DE 8y ago
  The recent yield curve inversion got a lot of peoples' attention as that has preceded recessions since the 1960s or so, but I can't point to a better article than mainstream news.
- sneak 8y ago
  There is no "state of the art" of predicting the future, sadly.
- mertd 8y ago
  No. The bull run could sustain for another 10 years or end tomorrow. I bet people predicting the downturn are also still heavily invested in stocks.
  - TheAlchemist 8y ago
    That's the nature of the market. However, it's still a very valuable to say 'market will be lower than today, by 30%, somewhere between today and 10 years'. The periods where this phrase were true throughout history are rather very rare - and I do belive it's quite true now.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    > I bet people predicting the downturn are also still heavily invested in stocks. As they should be, unless they plan to retire in the near future. Attempting to time the market is generally folly.
- simplyluke 8y ago
  We've been in a bull run for a long time. The market will eventually have a downturn. No one knows when that will be, how big it will be, or how long it will run for. HN comments can be excellent on certain topics, finance is certainly not one of them.
andreilys 8y ago
Reminds me of the IPO rush in 2000/2001.
- mattrp 8y ago
  Slack is a little better than VA Linux...you have to admit!
sct202 8y ago
Seems like it wouldn't be a great idea to IPO at the same time as everyone else, since like there isn't unlimited money out there, but who knows.
phamilton 8y ago
Has there ever been a non monetary benefit to going public?
- jorts 8y ago
  It can give you credibility to your customers. They can see your financial position which, assuming the company is performing well, can give them peace of mind that you're not a startup that will disappear tomorrow. It helps with recruiting, as you're more well known and the equity that folks get is more liquid.
govg 8y ago
I wouldn't really club Zoom in with the rest of the tech IPO's, they've shown a profit and seem to be able to stay that way.
- granshaw 8y ago
  It's interesting that it's turned out that way - of those options you'd guess that a video chat platform would have a higher overhead...

by amrrs 8y ago

Lyft, Uber, Zoom, Beyond Meat and now, Slack Is there any benefit of Public at this point of time? or Just a trend to grab as much as Wallet share from the average investor?

bardworx 8y ago

Slack is doing a direct listing and aren't raising money via their IPO. This could be good for the average investor as the prices woun't be pumped up but the risk is that there was no price discovery.

btown 8y ago

Give investors liquidity before the inevitable economic downturn, without needing to sell the company.

CSMastermind 8y ago

The market is going to crash and everyone wants to cash out before it does.

polote 8y ago
But could also be the thing that will make the market crash nobody knows
- prklmn 8y ago
  The S&P 500 by itself is valued at almost $24T (https://ycharts.com/indicators/sandp_500_market_cap https://ycharts.com/indicators/sandp_500_market_cap). A couple large companies going public and raising several billion dollars will not make the market crash. All of them listing at once is a symptom of where we are in the economic cycle, and where these companies are in their individual growth curves.
- screye 8y ago
  I can see that happening. Loss making unicorns go public -> investor pressure builds to reach profitability -> none of them can deliver on promises in the short term -> public does not want to own these stocks anymore -> causes a frantic selling spree -> market crashes.
  - megous 8y ago
    Why would the market crash, and not just these few bad comapanies? What's systemic about the overhyped IRC clone or just another taxi service getting their fair value judged by public markets, that would cause a market crash?
    - komali2 8y ago
      Maybe it finally pushes the student loan crisis over the edge when an influx of unemployed tech workers are added to the tens of thousands defaulting on their loans?
      - mfatica 8y ago
        Outside of silicon valley there's an extraordinary amount of unfilled tech positions. If they are unemployed it's likely their own fault.
        komali2 8y ago
        > If they are unemployed it's likely their own fault. Well hold on, I was just idly speculating, but I don't like this kind of thinking. There's a hundred and one reasons people can't leave a city, or the obstacle to leaving is too great. Off the top of my head, not wanting to uproot kids into a new school system, partner's job, disability that makes it extraordinarily difficult to move (away from whatever ADA stuff you've got set up at your apartment and commute flow you've got set up), need to stay near sick family, need to stay regional to a very specific doctor or healthcare facility, and that's just needs. A strong desire to stay in a local area due to history or just preference should be valid as well. I see this reasoning used to attack non-tech workers all the time and it bothers me.
    - est31 8y ago
      I doubt there will be a global stock market crash but a there can definitely be a burst of the second dot com bubble. It would be enough for one of the overvalued companies to go bankrupt to take them all down, e.g. Tesla (they certainly have liquidity problems).
BurningFrog 8y ago
What specifically will make the market crash?
- freehunter 8y ago
  If nothing else, the cycle of the market. Might not be this year, might not be next year, might not be the year after, but it's inevitable and we're coming due. Could happen at any time for any reason, but it will happen. If you're thinking of going public, you want to get in before that happens.
- shostack 8y ago
  The GOP's tax heist that has led to dumping rocket fuel on an already insanely hot market, leading to stock buybacks that give the illusion of growth and mask warning signs, coupled with removing the safety net of having the ability to reduce taxes when things do start declining. We're in for a rough one, and it is VERY intentional this time.

fratlas 8y ago

I've been seeing a lot of calls about this incoming downturn (especially HN), does anyone have any articles/analysis they can point me to? Would love to read up on the state of it.

0xDEFC0DE 8y ago
The recent yield curve inversion got a lot of peoples' attention as that has preceded recessions since the 1960s or so, but I can't point to a better article than mainstream news.
sneak 8y ago
There is no "state of the art" of predicting the future, sadly.
mertd 8y ago
No. The bull run could sustain for another 10 years or end tomorrow. I bet people predicting the downturn are also still heavily invested in stocks.
- TheAlchemist 8y ago
  That's the nature of the market. However, it's still a very valuable to say 'market will be lower than today, by 30%, somewhere between today and 10 years'. The periods where this phrase were true throughout history are rather very rare - and I do belive it's quite true now.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  > I bet people predicting the downturn are also still heavily invested in stocks. As they should be, unless they plan to retire in the near future. Attempting to time the market is generally folly.
simplyluke 8y ago
We've been in a bull run for a long time. The market will eventually have a downturn. No one knows when that will be, how big it will be, or how long it will run for. HN comments can be excellent on certain topics, finance is certainly not one of them.

andreilys 8y ago

Reminds me of the IPO rush in 2000/2001.

mattrp 8y ago
Slack is a little better than VA Linux...you have to admit!

sct202 8y ago

Seems like it wouldn't be a great idea to IPO at the same time as everyone else, since like there isn't unlimited money out there, but who knows.

phamilton 8y ago

Has there ever been a non monetary benefit to going public?

jorts 8y ago
It can give you credibility to your customers. They can see your financial position which, assuming the company is performing well, can give them peace of mind that you're not a startup that will disappear tomorrow. It helps with recruiting, as you're more well known and the equity that folks get is more liquid.

govg 8y ago

I wouldn't really club Zoom in with the rest of the tech IPO's, they've shown a profit and seem to be able to stay that way.

granshaw 8y ago
It's interesting that it's turned out that way - of those options you'd guess that a video chat platform would have a higher overhead...