5 ms·

Seems illegal to quarantine people for measles. They don't quarantine people for the flu, and that's a much deadlier disease.

cjslep 8y ago
Go watch Kurzgesagt's video on measles [0] You are confusing severity vs virulence (contagiousness). Measles is an immuno-compromising disease (like HIV, unlike the flu) and very very virulent. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0opgc1WoS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0opgc1WoS4
melling 8y ago
Measles isn’t as “deadly” because we vaccinate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles
cblades 8y ago
They do quarantine people for the flu. Happened during my undergrad; they kept a few students with the swine flu in their rooms. Had meals and supplies brought to them and asked them to not leave.
- linuxftw 8y ago
  That doesn't sound like a legally enforceable quarantine; if they were kept in their rooms by force, that would be unlawful detention. Of course, if you legit have the swine flu, you probably won't be milling about anyway.
  - cblades 8y ago
    "asked" being operative there. The college can absolutely say "either observe the quarantine or get off campus".
    - linuxftw 8y ago
      Well, that's not really a quarantine, then, is it? So, 'they' (meaning, the government) doesn't quarantine people with the flu.
      - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
        > Well, that's not really a quarantine, then, is it? Of course it is. The word "quarantine" does not automatically imply the threat of force.
      - cblades 8y ago
        It seems you're more interested in pedantry than a conversation.
DanBC 8y ago
Where are you getting death rate from for measles and flu please? Also, we're not just interested in death rates (about 2 children out of every 1000 who get measles will die from it) but also long term harm, which can include deafness or brain damage. Since the US had eradicated measles in about 2000 that's a lot of preventable harm that's happening because people fear vaccines.
dekhn 8y ago
Why do you think it is "illegal" to quarantine people for measles? https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantin...
- linuxftw 8y ago
  Not in the list of quarantinable diseases, at least not on the federal level: https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2003.html#13295 https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2... I would assume California has their own list. Are they just arbitrarily adding anything and everything to the list? The state's power shouldn't be unlimited, and measles is not a justifiable disease for quarantine.
jackconnor 8y ago
Not illegal and definitely necessary for deadly virulent diseases. How do you think we're supposed to handle a deadly outbreak, wishful thinking?
- linuxftw 8y ago
  Not a deadly virulent disease. Less deadly than the flu.
  - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
    > Not a deadly virulent disease. Completely wrong on both counts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles
  - jackconnor 8y ago
    If you're going to say measels is less deadly than the flu you gotta back it up. "ebola is less deadly than a sprained ankle, believe me."
overcast 8y ago
No, what seems illegal is forgoing vaccination. You want to forfeit a proven system to prevent widespread disease, then you should give up your right to live in the country. How vaccination isn't a mandatory thing by law, is beyond me.
- ghaff 8y ago
  One can strongly favor vaccination (and favor prohibiting activities such as attending public schools absent vaccination without specific medical reasons) without favoring deportation for anyone who doesn't submit to forced vaccination--which I'm pretty sure would be unconstitutional for citizens.
  - estebank 8y ago
    Funnily enough in order to get a green card you need to present proof of comprehensive vaccination. This is only done almost at the end of the process, at which point you would have been in the US for years.
- gnu8 8y ago
  Where would you deport them to? Whatever your answer, I can assure you that the people over there don’t want measles people either.
  - overcast 8y ago
    I guess the answer is that it should be required by law then? You either get vaccinated, or you go into permanent quarantine until you do. I don't understand how in this case, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.
    - ccallebs 8y ago
      I appreciate your desire to solve the problem, and I'm certainly pro-vaccination. However, I really don't want to set another precedent of allowing the state to permanently detain people because of perceived public danger (real or otherwise). Imagine if this kind of thinking prevailed in the HIV hysteria of the 80's/90's. It's relatively easy to follow this approach to its logical conclusion. When you order authoritarianism, it's very likely you'll get it. And not simply in the places you want it.

cjslep 8y ago

Go watch Kurzgesagt's video on measles [0] You are confusing severity vs virulence (contagiousness). Measles is an immuno-compromising disease (like HIV, unlike the flu) and very very virulent. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0opgc1WoS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0opgc1WoS4

melling 8y ago

Measles isn’t as “deadly” because we vaccinate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles

cblades 8y ago

They do quarantine people for the flu. Happened during my undergrad; they kept a few students with the swine flu in their rooms. Had meals and supplies brought to them and asked them to not leave.

linuxftw 8y ago
That doesn't sound like a legally enforceable quarantine; if they were kept in their rooms by force, that would be unlawful detention. Of course, if you legit have the swine flu, you probably won't be milling about anyway.
- cblades 8y ago
  "asked" being operative there. The college can absolutely say "either observe the quarantine or get off campus".
  - linuxftw 8y ago
    Well, that's not really a quarantine, then, is it? So, 'they' (meaning, the government) doesn't quarantine people with the flu.
    - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
      > Well, that's not really a quarantine, then, is it? Of course it is. The word "quarantine" does not automatically imply the threat of force.
    - cblades 8y ago
      It seems you're more interested in pedantry than a conversation.

DanBC 8y ago

Where are you getting death rate from for measles and flu please? Also, we're not just interested in death rates (about 2 children out of every 1000 who get measles will die from it) but also long term harm, which can include deafness or brain damage. Since the US had eradicated measles in about 2000 that's a lot of preventable harm that's happening because people fear vaccines.

dekhn 8y ago

Why do you think it is "illegal" to quarantine people for measles? https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantin...

linuxftw 8y ago
Not in the list of quarantinable diseases, at least not on the federal level: https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2003.html#13295 https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2... I would assume California has their own list. Are they just arbitrarily adding anything and everything to the list? The state's power shouldn't be unlimited, and measles is not a justifiable disease for quarantine.

jackconnor 8y ago

Not illegal and definitely necessary for deadly virulent diseases. How do you think we're supposed to handle a deadly outbreak, wishful thinking?

linuxftw 8y ago
Not a deadly virulent disease. Less deadly than the flu.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  > Not a deadly virulent disease. Completely wrong on both counts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles
- jackconnor 8y ago
  If you're going to say measels is less deadly than the flu you gotta back it up. "ebola is less deadly than a sprained ankle, believe me."

overcast 8y ago

No, what seems illegal is forgoing vaccination. You want to forfeit a proven system to prevent widespread disease, then you should give up your right to live in the country. How vaccination isn't a mandatory thing by law, is beyond me.

ghaff 8y ago
One can strongly favor vaccination (and favor prohibiting activities such as attending public schools absent vaccination without specific medical reasons) without favoring deportation for anyone who doesn't submit to forced vaccination--which I'm pretty sure would be unconstitutional for citizens.
- estebank 8y ago
  Funnily enough in order to get a green card you need to present proof of comprehensive vaccination. This is only done almost at the end of the process, at which point you would have been in the US for years.
gnu8 8y ago
Where would you deport them to? Whatever your answer, I can assure you that the people over there don’t want measles people either.
- overcast 8y ago
  I guess the answer is that it should be required by law then? You either get vaccinated, or you go into permanent quarantine until you do. I don't understand how in this case, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.
  - ccallebs 8y ago
    I appreciate your desire to solve the problem, and I'm certainly pro-vaccination. However, I really don't want to set another precedent of allowing the state to permanently detain people because of perceived public danger (real or otherwise). Imagine if this kind of thinking prevailed in the HIV hysteria of the 80's/90's. It's relatively easy to follow this approach to its logical conclusion. When you order authoritarianism, it's very likely you'll get it. And not simply in the places you want it.