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I work in Europe in a city of startups, Berlin. I can tell you most of the startups here have no concept of or simply don't care about hiring great candidates.

I work in Europe in a city of startups, Berlin. I can tell you most of the startups here have no concept of or simply don't care about hiring great candidates. A great number of them run on selecting for candidates who are most willing to bend over to exploitation. Screening tests and "case studies"/homework that takes 10-20 hours of time are abundant to weed out anyone who might be a pain to manage. They don't want independent thinkers or challengers who think out of the box, they just want 'doers' who will follow every twist and turn of senior management 'vision'. As a non-German or non-EU, they then offer you a craptastic package of maybe 40-60k EUR before taxes (local Germans will get anywhere from 60-90k for a similar position). If you say no, congrats, they've succeeded in weeding out the next group of annoyances: anyone who wants to be compensated fairly. The result is startups get the exact kind of workers they love - the kind that is easily exploited both in terms of work quantity and financially. European startups like to whine about "shortage of talent" but what they're really complaining about is the lack of total naive locals and foreign talent willing to move to be exploited. Also startups in Europe usually DO NOT adhere to the "EU work life balance" that is parroted around the internet. You get worked like you're in America, minus the American salaries.

clappski 7y ago
Trying to place Berlin as the whole of Europe is pretty unfair to the rest of Europe (considering it contains a wide variety of cultures and expectations on working life). Also, people referring to 'EU work life balance' are probably really talking about the much more substantial labor laws in the EU compared to the US, rather than meaning that they only work 2.5 hours a week for 90k$ or something. I can't say I've had the same experience working for start ups in London, in fact I've had the opposite - competitive pay (probably about 20% less than working in tier 1/2 banks but above market in industry), good benefits (incl. private health, gym etc.), fair work life balance (incl. holiday days and WFH policies) and rewarding work with intelligent colleagues. Non-EU/UK workers that I've worked with have the same experience as far as I can tell (perhaps even more positive, considering that some of them require visa sponsorships).
- krageon 7y ago
  > Trying to place Berlin as the whole of Europe is pretty unfair to the rest of Europe I can't say that I've found the attitude of the companies in London or Amsterdam to be materially different from what was described. That doesn't mean that it is the whole of Europe, but I'm willing to doubt that it is an isolated cultural thing. Given that we both have wildly differing experiences with London, I'm willing to grant that London might have unique and positive offers now (my experience is from at least 3-4 years ago) or that I have at the time completely missed the healthy companies.
  - retiredcoder 7y ago
    If I can allow myself to chime in... I think social / cultural differences actually is not enough to differentiate European start-ups. If nothing else, there is a tremendous (deliberate?) effort to follow American standards of management and GTD. However, at the same time, Venture Capital and management overall seem to be a bit more risk averse in Europe than USA. But thats just my opinion of what is the common denominator here in Europe.
    - krageon 7y ago
      I imagine it's easy to be in love with a philosophy that dehumanises employees when you are an employer. Startup founders are no exception.

clappski 7y ago

Trying to place Berlin as the whole of Europe is pretty unfair to the rest of Europe (considering it contains a wide variety of cultures and expectations on working life). Also, people referring to 'EU work life balance' are probably really talking about the much more substantial labor laws in the EU compared to the US, rather than meaning that they only work 2.5 hours a week for 90k$ or something. I can't say I've had the same experience working for start ups in London, in fact I've had the opposite - competitive pay (probably about 20% less than working in tier 1/2 banks but above market in industry), good benefits (incl. private health, gym etc.), fair work life balance (incl. holiday days and WFH policies) and rewarding work with intelligent colleagues. Non-EU/UK workers that I've worked with have the same experience as far as I can tell (perhaps even more positive, considering that some of them require visa sponsorships).

krageon 7y ago
> Trying to place Berlin as the whole of Europe is pretty unfair to the rest of Europe I can't say that I've found the attitude of the companies in London or Amsterdam to be materially different from what was described. That doesn't mean that it is the whole of Europe, but I'm willing to doubt that it is an isolated cultural thing. Given that we both have wildly differing experiences with London, I'm willing to grant that London might have unique and positive offers now (my experience is from at least 3-4 years ago) or that I have at the time completely missed the healthy companies.
- retiredcoder 7y ago
  If I can allow myself to chime in... I think social / cultural differences actually is not enough to differentiate European start-ups. If nothing else, there is a tremendous (deliberate?) effort to follow American standards of management and GTD. However, at the same time, Venture Capital and management overall seem to be a bit more risk averse in Europe than USA. But thats just my opinion of what is the common denominator here in Europe.
  - krageon 7y ago
    I imagine it's easy to be in love with a philosophy that dehumanises employees when you are an employer. Startup founders are no exception.