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Turnover Hits Apple’s Famed Industrial Design Team
- itsdrewmiller 7y agoDo these three people have 45 years combined experience on the industrial design team, or do you get promoted into that team after substantial experience on other teams at Apple? That could be the difference between a dramatic loss of institutional knowledge and ho hum normal turnover (12% annually).
- puzzle 7y agoProbably the former, given that the team has been around for a long time. There was another defection even before their earliest example of 2016. In that case it was someone with a decade of experience on the team and another 25 years in the field who went to Google (ouch).
- Despegar 7y agoFrom the New Yorker profile of Jony Ive a few years ago: >Apple employs three recruiters whose sole task is to identify designers to join the group; they find perhaps one a year. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/23/shape-things-come https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/23/shape-things-c...
- atonse 7y agoI suppose anyone leaving Apple's ID team (especially Jony Ive's inner circle) would get the equivalent of Jony Ive's job at any number of companies around the world. And companies would be happy to have that calibre of talent on board. Some of it might be better career prospects, and some of it might really be "I've been at the pinnacle of my profession, I think I'm done"
- Waterluvian 7y agoOr something as human as, "I'm tired of designing laptops, phones, and peripherals. I want to try designing something very different for a while." Life is fleeting. Go start new careers every 5-10 years if you have the luxury of that option. You decide what "career" means. Maybe you go become a stand up comedian. Maybe you just go program something different than you have been.
- rocky1138 7y agoJust wanted to say I love this advice.
- Taniwha 7y agoYup, that's the best thing about working in this field - every 5-10 years you get to reinvent yourself so that the job doesn't go stale
- germinalphrase 7y agoWhen you say “this field”, do you mean design or tech more generally?
- puzzle 7y agoIn a commencement speech, Jeff Hoefer goes a little bit into why he left the team four years ago and how he's changed his job each year since: https://youtu.be/a7cJHTpW4Tg https://youtu.be/a7cJHTpW4Tg (jump to 49:00 or so for the more relevant bits) Note also that he had a quarter century of experience before Apple, having worked on anything from the (RotJ?) Darth Vader helmet to the Oral B CrossAction, which is, a bit surprisingly, the product he thinks defines his career.
- kilroy123 7y agoThat's what I'm going to try to do. After being paid to code for over 10 years, I simply don't want to do it anymore. I'm going to start an aerospace company and try something radically different. I'm single, I have no kids, and don't own a home. Why not? You know?
- chime 7y agoAs long as they don’t try to replicate their Apple-specific tactics. https://www.forbes.com/sites/marketshare/2013/04/09/ron-johnson-ousted-as-jcpenney-ceo/#5ffde056363b https://www.forbes.com/sites/marketshare/2013/04/09/ron-john...
- Spooky23 7y agoYet they’ve been there forever. People don’t simultaneously decide that they’ve hit their peak. They do get pissed off in clusters though. The more straightforward guess is that perhaps there are problems with some aspect of working on this team.
- village-idiot 7y ago“People do get pissed off in clusters” is the best description of a team/company meltdown that I’ve ever seen.
- pvg 7y agoI'm sure most of these people have exceptional career options but there really isn't an equivalent of Jony Ive's job at other companies.
- jseliger 7y agoI wonder if any of them were involved in the Macbook Pro keyboard.
- nemosaltat 7y agoThe self awareness to leave the stage before you're asked to.
- barbecue_sauce 7y agoDo you think the industrial designers were actually involved in the engineering of the keyboard (the source of the issues) or just the aesthetics (which look fine)?
- sgustard 7y agoGiven that the old keyboard worked fine, and the only reason we have a new one is to shave a few millimeters, then yes I believe the designers are most directly responsible. Plus ID would tell you their role is much more than "aesthetics."
- ImprovedSilence 7y agoMaybe I'm an outlier, but I actually really like the feel of the new mbp keyboard, and going back to the old keyboard feels like i just stepped back in time and my ipod has a wheel on it again... This opinion subject to change if keys stop working. I would, however, give up some thinness for better battery life, that's for sure...
- skavi 7y agoI use a mechanical keyboard (blue) on desktop, and previously used a relatively thick Lenovo laptop. If my 2018 MBP wasn't constantly double typing 'e', I'd rank it right up there with them in terms of feel. It's shallow, but very crisp, with just the right activation force. Though, if Apple couldn't fix its issues in three generations, it may be time for them to move on.
- Despegar 7y agoThis might be the only video of most if not all of the ID team at Apple [1]. I've been following Apple since I was 16 or 17 and I think in that time they've been pretty anonymous in the Apple story. Found a photo of them [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEW4D_CERkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEW4D_CERkE [2] https://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Apple_Industrial_Design_team_2014-780x575.jpg https://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Apple_I...
- bredren 7y agoI don’t think Apple leadership is concerned about being the world’s most valuable company in any given quarter or any given year. This article alludes to a tie between design team departures and declines in sales growth. Apple did not get big chasing quarterly profit numbers, it got big releasing game changing products and product improvements at the right time. While this design group deserves strong regard, building AR glasses and software interface to control them is not something that a dozen people solely define, it comes from trial and error and enlightened engineers building and offering alternative ideas based on what only they could know is achievable in windows of potential release. In fact, over the air updates, which was one of the most amazing accomplishments and features of iOS has little design at all. It’s just smart engineering that works well. So I do not see these departures as a threat to glasses or autonomous systems because the prestige of the company combined with its quality of “taste” as jobs put it means it is not going wayward because three people leave.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- nikofeyn 7y ago> Apple did not get big chasing quarterly profit numbers, it got big releasing game changing products and product improvements at the right time. they released those products over a decade ago. they got big because they took the momentum from those innovations and turned them into a lifestyle, creating “upgrade” fever and everything else that came with that. in the meantime, they became an industry bully, pressuring suppliers and vendors for more and more discounts while pressuring consumers to pay more and more for moderate iterations of their products.
- starky 7y ago>In fact, over the air updates, which was one of the most amazing accomplishments and features of iOS has little design at all. It’s just smart engineering that works well. I disagree with your statement completely, a lack of interface is still an interface and requires careful design considerations on the backend. I think this quote sums it up: Good design, when it’s done well, becomes invisible. It’s only when it’s done poorly that we notice it. - Jared Spool
- kraig911 7y agoI personally think right now that industrial design, architecture and still fashion have a lot of catching up to do when it comes to designing great things with regards to technology. Gone are the days where you can be concerned with the physical looks of a thing. I've met designers who can do everything just that the upper management team(s) don't get it. If we can get these super thin laptop designs why can't we create new form factors? It's purely because people are afraid right now to create new product segments or try new things. I imagine a lot of these designers are leaving because they're trying really hard but keep making things that never see the light of day.
- inuhj 7y agoThe last paragraph rings true to me. I've had designers leave my company because I consistently picked other designs over their's. IMO it comes down to a builder versus maintainer mindset.
- da_chicken 7y agoAnd so begins the inevitable rise of tonerheads at Apple.
- DonHopkins 7y agoIt ebbs and flows over the years. The lowest stinkiest neap tide of the worst ebb ever was the QuickTime 4.0 Player Debacle. "Think Different" but "Do Same". http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/qtimeno.htm http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/qtimeno.htm Interface Hall of Shame - QuickTime 4.0 Player - Amid much fanfare, Apple recently released a beta version of the QuickTime 4.0 Player. Intended to showcase the technological improvements of the QuickTime 4.0 multimedia technology, the QuickTime 4.0 Player sports a completely redesigned user interface. The new interface represents an almost violent departure from the long established standards that have been the hallmark of Apple software. Ease of Use has always been paramount to Apple, but after exploring the QuickTime 4.0 Player, the rationale behind Apple's recent "Think Different" advertising campaign is now clear. While there are some who would conclude that the revised interface represents innovative thinking at Apple, we would have to conclude otherwise. There is nothing innovative about the user interface of the QuickTime 4.0 Player; the developers adopted the same misguided principles employed in IBM's RealThings, copied some of the same features we critiqued in our reviews of IBM's RealPhone and RealCD, and added a few new follies of their own.
- xenihn 7y agoI wonder how many are going to Juul. They already have the guy who was in charge of the iPod.
- therein 7y agoWhat has changed in the design really? I keep getting the most recent generation as they don't have a long lifetime and they are good with warranty replacements. All I can tell is the material is a bit darker and the corners are more beveled.
- xenihn 7y agoI don't know but he's been there since the beginning.
- mullingitover 7y agoAre these people being pushed out over the keyboard fiasco, or is no one in the company being held accountable for that disaster?
- petilon 7y agoApple's industrial design team was great when Steve Jobs was alive. After his passing the team hasn't produced anything good. Take Homepod for example. It is an amorphous blob. Google Home has a better industrial design, and so does every single Bose speaker. Apple's industrial design team is coasting on the reputation built during the Jobs years; their current work is crap.
- village-idiot 7y agoAs someone who’s wearing an Apple Watch and listening to AirPods, I’m inclined to disagree that Apple’s ID is resting on their laurels.
- tomduncalf 7y agoAgreed. Just picked up my first Watch (S4) and it’s probably the most successfully “Apple-y” Apple product I’ve used for a long time (meant as a compliment!). Beautifully designed hardware and the combination of thoughtful software and hardware design has created a device that enhances your day to day life with useful functionality and keeps an eye on your fitness without being intrusive, annoying or addictive. I like it much more than I expected to. I also think iPhone X and the new iPad Pro are fantastic pieces of design. As someone who used the iPad for music software, I really wish they hadn’t got rid of the headphone socket, but otherwise it’s a very well designed device.
- thoughtfunction 7y agoI actually like the design of the homepod, it's quite clever. The apple watch being held together by glue vs interlocking plate or screws although is something I don't like. It makes the water resistance fail when you are in a hot situation, like a hot sunny day, a warm shower or a hot tub.
- wpdev_63 7y agoHopefully it's the people who thought the macbook pro keyboard was a good idea...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- riffraff 7y agothat's just a natural step in the "thinness is the top priority in a laptop or phone" direction they have been following for years, I'm afraid.
- hyko 7y agoI like the MacBook Pro butterfly keyboard.
- karmelapple 7y agoI did, too... until it failed for one of my teammates and myself. It’s a pretty awful feeling to have spent money on what’s considered the best-in-class laptop only to have the keyboard - something that’s never failed on any iBook or MacBook I’ve owned in over 15 years - have really weird error modes. They need to fix this.
- chrizel 7y agoMe too. I like the keyboard and the feeling. But after 1.5 years now I get stuck keys from time to time, and this is just bad for a computer of this price range. It is good if you do not have any problems, but sooner or later everyone will get problems - it is a ticking bomb.