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So what's your alternative? Java Swing? Proprietary Sun (now Oracle) technology. Qt? Proprietary Trolltech tech. Electron? You're back on square one of using Go

by est31 8y ago

So what's your alternative? Java Swing? Proprietary Sun (now Oracle) technology. Qt? Proprietary Trolltech tech. Electron? You're back on square one of using Google technology. And winforms, WPF, application kit, etc are all far more proprietary than Flutter.

krageon 8y ago
The done thing in Java now is JavaFX, and the last time I bothered to work with it (more than a year ago) I remember really liking it. Of course, to me any kind of web tech is a complete non-starter so I am comparing this to using Tcl and WxWidgets.
- lmm 8y ago
  Funnily enough Tklets worked on the web before even Java or Flash.
skinnyasianboi 8y ago
Kotlin native/multiplatform projects is the answer
- supergilbert 8y ago
  Exactly. Kotlin for all platforms is the best option for the future.
- Bahamut 8y ago
  Kotlin is by JetBrains.
- brylie 8y ago
  What are some of the strengths you enjoy about Kotlin?
- expliced 8y ago
  You still need some gui library/framework. What crossplatform options do you have?
- mr_tristan 8y ago
  It's _very_ early, though, as well. There's not much of an ecosystem for multiplatform yet for desktop projects at all. For macOS you have a way of "making a framework you can use" and that's about it. There is a lot of promise, though, in the mobile space: https://touchlab.co/touchlab-square-kotlin-multiplatform-collaboration/ https://touchlab.co/touchlab-square-kotlin-multiplatform-col... My sense is that as the mobile multiplatform space gets ironed out, the desktop space will benefit. Though generally speaking, Kotlin/Native has a _much_ lower level of "institutional" risk, since the Kotlin approach doesn't subvert the control Apple or Microsoft have over their platforms. Flutter, on the other hand, seems to abstract it away.
- rhodysurf 8y ago
  Its not though.. the only IDE is CLion which does not have a free version. Thats a showstopper for a lot of people. Its also pretty slow compared with other native solutions.
  - ptx 8y ago
    It actually works really well in IntelliJ Community Edition. There is a template for creating a new Kotlin/Native project, the auto-completion works and there is even unit testing support! Things have come a long way since the early days of compiling your own cinterop stubs and figuring out APIs from the generated wrappers. :) If you want a debugger you need CLion, though. And the compiler is really, really slow – but they seem to be working on benchmarking things recently, so presumably it will be improved.
- scalatronn 8y ago
  I'm tired of long compilation and failing compiler ;)
s_y_n_t_a_x 8y ago
ReactXP (https://microsoft.github.io/reactxp/ https://microsoft.github.io/reactxp/) uses TypeScript and targets mobile and desktop platforms using native controls, not emulated controls. While Flutter doesn't work yet for desktop or web, ReactXP already works for these environments, and is used in the new Skype for Web. Windows support is done and targets W10, Xbox, and Windows Mixed Reality. MacOS support is experimental, but mostly working. Linux currently needs an Electron wrapper.
edwinyzh 8y ago
No mention of Lazarus? Check the IDE: (https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ https://www.lazarus-ide.org/) and the cross-platform apps built with it: http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Application_Gallery http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Application_Gallery
jcelerier 8y ago
> Qt? Proprietary Trolltech tech. ... is this a comment from 1997 ? Qt is licensed under both GPLv3 and LGPLv3 - and Trolltech as a company hasn't existed for more than a decade...
- alexhutcheson 8y ago
  Dart and Flutter are both BSD licensed, so presumably the discussion of "proprietary" is at least somewhat orthogonal to whether it has an open source license.
- est31 8y ago
  My comment was in reply to someone claiming that Dart was "yet-another Proprietary Google Technology". If Dart is proprietary then Qt is, too. Most likely by proprietary they didn't mean license but being controlled by a company, which both are. Dart is open source btw. as well. In fact, you could say that Dart is more open source because in Qt, proprietary ISV developers can't use the open source model if they want to not avoid having to give dynamic linking support and other LGPL obligations. And trolltech is very alive and publicly traded in fact. It has just been renamed to Qt company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Qt_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Qt_Company
yellowapple 8y ago
Tk is a pretty solid option nowadays, and it's wonderfully cross platform. Thanks to TTk, begone are the olden days when Tk apps stuck out like sore thumbs (the look and feel ain't an exact match even today, but nowadays the differences are more subtle). It also works with a remarkable number of languages. The only reason why I've reached for Qt instead lately is because the last couple projects I've done required an embedded browser window (i.e. because they're wrapping some web-based application) and Tk lacks modern options on that front (though I'd love to fix that at some point). GTK+ and wxWidgets are other viable and popular choices for cross-platform desktop GUIs.

by est31 8y ago

krageon 8y ago

The done thing in Java now is JavaFX, and the last time I bothered to work with it (more than a year ago) I remember really liking it. Of course, to me any kind of web tech is a complete non-starter so I am comparing this to using Tcl and WxWidgets.

lmm 8y ago
Funnily enough Tklets worked on the web before even Java or Flash.

skinnyasianboi 8y ago

Kotlin native/multiplatform projects is the answer

supergilbert 8y ago
Exactly. Kotlin for all platforms is the best option for the future.
Bahamut 8y ago
Kotlin is by JetBrains.
brylie 8y ago
What are some of the strengths you enjoy about Kotlin?
expliced 8y ago
You still need some gui library/framework. What crossplatform options do you have?
mr_tristan 8y ago
It's _very_ early, though, as well. There's not much of an ecosystem for multiplatform yet for desktop projects at all. For macOS you have a way of "making a framework you can use" and that's about it. There is a lot of promise, though, in the mobile space: https://touchlab.co/touchlab-square-kotlin-multiplatform-collaboration/ https://touchlab.co/touchlab-square-kotlin-multiplatform-col... My sense is that as the mobile multiplatform space gets ironed out, the desktop space will benefit. Though generally speaking, Kotlin/Native has a _much_ lower level of "institutional" risk, since the Kotlin approach doesn't subvert the control Apple or Microsoft have over their platforms. Flutter, on the other hand, seems to abstract it away.
rhodysurf 8y ago
Its not though.. the only IDE is CLion which does not have a free version. Thats a showstopper for a lot of people. Its also pretty slow compared with other native solutions.
- ptx 8y ago
  It actually works really well in IntelliJ Community Edition. There is a template for creating a new Kotlin/Native project, the auto-completion works and there is even unit testing support! Things have come a long way since the early days of compiling your own cinterop stubs and figuring out APIs from the generated wrappers. :) If you want a debugger you need CLion, though. And the compiler is really, really slow – but they seem to be working on benchmarking things recently, so presumably it will be improved.
scalatronn 8y ago
I'm tired of long compilation and failing compiler ;)

s_y_n_t_a_x 8y ago

ReactXP (https://microsoft.github.io/reactxp/ https://microsoft.github.io/reactxp/) uses TypeScript and targets mobile and desktop platforms using native controls, not emulated controls. While Flutter doesn't work yet for desktop or web, ReactXP already works for these environments, and is used in the new Skype for Web. Windows support is done and targets W10, Xbox, and Windows Mixed Reality. MacOS support is experimental, but mostly working. Linux currently needs an Electron wrapper.

edwinyzh 8y ago

No mention of Lazarus? Check the IDE: (https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ https://www.lazarus-ide.org/) and the cross-platform apps built with it: http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Application_Gallery http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Application_Gallery

jcelerier 8y ago

> Qt? Proprietary Trolltech tech. ... is this a comment from 1997 ? Qt is licensed under both GPLv3 and LGPLv3 - and Trolltech as a company hasn't existed for more than a decade...

alexhutcheson 8y ago
Dart and Flutter are both BSD licensed, so presumably the discussion of "proprietary" is at least somewhat orthogonal to whether it has an open source license.
est31 8y ago
My comment was in reply to someone claiming that Dart was "yet-another Proprietary Google Technology". If Dart is proprietary then Qt is, too. Most likely by proprietary they didn't mean license but being controlled by a company, which both are. Dart is open source btw. as well. In fact, you could say that Dart is more open source because in Qt, proprietary ISV developers can't use the open source model if they want to not avoid having to give dynamic linking support and other LGPL obligations. And trolltech is very alive and publicly traded in fact. It has just been renamed to Qt company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Qt_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Qt_Company

yellowapple 8y ago

Tk is a pretty solid option nowadays, and it's wonderfully cross platform. Thanks to TTk, begone are the olden days when Tk apps stuck out like sore thumbs (the look and feel ain't an exact match even today, but nowadays the differences are more subtle). It also works with a remarkable number of languages. The only reason why I've reached for Qt instead lately is because the last couple projects I've done required an embedded browser window (i.e. because they're wrapping some web-based application) and Tk lacks modern options on that front (though I'd love to fix that at some point). GTK+ and wxWidgets are other viable and popular choices for cross-platform desktop GUIs.