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I'm am conflicted over the whole tesla thing. The model S is a truly great car but I can't stand Elon's hype about self driving cars etc, etc. The model 3 got o

I'm am conflicted over the whole tesla thing. The model S is a truly great car but I can't stand Elon's hype about self driving cars etc, etc. The model 3 got off to a rocky start but it sounds like the quality issues are improving. On the one hand I want them to succeed as they have been real innovators but by the same token when musk goes around hyping things up to create interest and bump up the stock price I would be happy to see them crash and burn.

Turbots 7y ago
I never get why Elon Musk gets roasted for hyping up his products while EVERY OTHER car manufacturer does the exact same thing. Heck, Jaguar boasted endlessly about their i-Pace being a great Tesla competitor, while in practice it disappointed in range (https://insideevs.com/news/340027/jaguar-i-pace-range-test-yields-disappointing-results/ https://insideevs.com/news/340027/jaguar-i-pace-range-test-y...)
- aeturnum 7y ago
  I think there are real material differences between being overly optimistic about range estimates (something Tesla has also done iirc) and overly optimistic about the car driving itself. One leads to extra charging or missed meetings, the other to bodily injury and death. I certainly don't mind Elon talking up how Tesla is fighting giants and doing Good Things. I like "little" companies taking on big ones. I don't like selling things people that may kill them or others.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  I think that's a huge overstatement. "Funding secured", preselling full self driving that doesn't exist, taking reservations for a 35k car that doesn't exist, etc. etc. is a big step above what other manufacturers do. I agree with the GP comment, I really want Tesla to succeed but they (or, rather, Musk) take hype and overselling to a new level.
- rchaud 7y ago
  The difference is that Elon Musk's hype has the stench of the monorail salesman in that episode of The Simpsons. A slick pitchman painting grandiose visions of the future ripped straight out of '50s science fiction comics. Seeing as how his Reddit following talk about him like Tony Stark, I feel like Musk knows exactly who he's courting. The chasm between Musk's superhero image and his Twitter meltdowns and missed deadlines, is likely what makes people be skeptical/annoyed with his communication style.
  - true_tuna 7y ago
    I was a member of his cult of personality till the debacle in Thailand and his utter inability to handle criticism for his absurd proposed course of action. Couple that with his weird lashing out at employees and insane persecution of whistleblowers and I’m done. Once you see it in that light he’s just another petty tyrant. I don’t imagine he’ll go very far with the current level of emotional maturity. It’s too bad because many of his initiatives are really beneficial.
elisharobinson 7y ago
its not hype if the tech is real.
- untog 7y ago
  And it is hype if the tech isn't real. I mean, it's called "auto pilot". It is not an auto pilot. It is not nearly ready for unattended driving. And yet, people use it as such and are surprised when they crash into a divider or something. There's a built in assumption that because the tech has progressed from point A to point B that it'll easily move to point C in the same amount of time. That's not at all guaranteed, and for all of the millions (billions?) being poured into self driving tech we don't have to show for it. It may be many, many years before we do.
  - derekp7 7y ago
    I fully understand the frustration with people thinking Tesla's driver assist is more than what it is. But what I don't understand is the issue people have with the product name. Almost all commercial airlines have an autopilot, but not one of them flies without an actual pilot and co-pilot in the cockpit. The only thing an airplane autopilot does is keep the bearing and altitude constant -- Tesla's "autopilot" actually does a bit more than that. Is the outrage over calling it "autopilot" based on the public's misunderstanding of how an airplane's autopilot works?
    - untog 7y ago
      My issue with the name is that it's a bad comparison at best, and misleading at worst. Yes, a plane autopilot only maintains bearing and altitude, but that's also all a plane needs to do. An equivalent system in a car would be utterly useless, so if you're taking Tesla's terms literally then they're telling you they've made something that's of no use to you. If, instead, you think of an autopilot as being something that allows the pilot to take their attention off the controls to do something else then, well, Tesla's autopilot explicitly doesn't do that. So it's not the right name when taken either literally or figuratively, so little wonder people get confused.
meekstro 7y ago
The question no-one asked. How difficult is it for BYD to clone his autopilot chip and will that stop the Chinese from exporting knockoffs because I'm certain they can close the data and software gap instantly by swapping out a harddrive or 10. I think he's got 10 years before the chinese chip fabs catch up. Musk's question how did Tesla build the best AI chip for driving in the world without being a chip designer was the far more interesting yet overlooked question. Musk has a talent for framing problems appropriately so that optimum solutions emerge with a minimum deployment of capital. And he's not secretive about it, he applies his training in physics and phenomenal knowledge to make good bets and eventually identifies and acknowledges his mistakes. Tesla doesn't have an advertising budget. Musk couldn't care less about it's shareprice but I think he will be a bit perturbed if identical technology emerges faster than he foresaw as was Apple when the Android ecosystem emerged. As it stands with his chip and data it is game set and match for autonomous driving which is a software game and the leader takes all the data and a fully autonomous vehicle is worth significantly more than non-autonomous vehicle and if you are data scientist you probably want to work for the company with the best data-set and highest remuneration. The data is the gold and Tesla owns it and no-one can steal it and use it for at least 10 years by which point battery vehicles will be cheaper than petrol vehicles which is the major problem with the model 3. It is currently uneconomic against a toyota corolla but gains ground with every piece of battery and energy storage research that musk does not pay for.
- dominotw 7y ago
  > Musk couldn't care less about it's shareprice seems to be constantly tweeting about it though.
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  > Tesla doesn't have an advertising budget. This is an oft-repeated trope, but one look at Tesla's reports will show it's not the case. Last year, approaching $100M (I want to say certainly greater than $80M) spent on "Advertising and marketing".
  - zaroth 7y ago
    Absolutely true. I’m sure the Referral program cost is the majority of that. They have a highly effective, modestly funded, non-traditional advertising strategy.
jessewmc 7y ago
I really hope someone else eats their lunch soon. There are some genuine improvements to the status quo in their cars, but the unbelievably poor quality control and silicon valley user hostility (near impossibility of DIY repairs & parts acquisition) should not be part of the future of cars. This is to say nothing about their quixotic attitude towards self-driving in the face of competitors using better methods.
- thatoneuser 7y ago
  Who exactly would eat their lunch? They're doing a ton of things the traditional auto industry Sat on for years not thinking about. I don't really see anyone doing all the things tesla does while still using parts ubiquitous enough for individuals to do their own repairs.

Turbots 7y ago

I never get why Elon Musk gets roasted for hyping up his products while EVERY OTHER car manufacturer does the exact same thing. Heck, Jaguar boasted endlessly about their i-Pace being a great Tesla competitor, while in practice it disappointed in range (https://insideevs.com/news/340027/jaguar-i-pace-range-test-yields-disappointing-results/ https://insideevs.com/news/340027/jaguar-i-pace-range-test-y...)

aeturnum 7y ago
I think there are real material differences between being overly optimistic about range estimates (something Tesla has also done iirc) and overly optimistic about the car driving itself. One leads to extra charging or missed meetings, the other to bodily injury and death. I certainly don't mind Elon talking up how Tesla is fighting giants and doing Good Things. I like "little" companies taking on big ones. I don't like selling things people that may kill them or others.
hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
I think that's a huge overstatement. "Funding secured", preselling full self driving that doesn't exist, taking reservations for a 35k car that doesn't exist, etc. etc. is a big step above what other manufacturers do. I agree with the GP comment, I really want Tesla to succeed but they (or, rather, Musk) take hype and overselling to a new level.
rchaud 7y ago
The difference is that Elon Musk's hype has the stench of the monorail salesman in that episode of The Simpsons. A slick pitchman painting grandiose visions of the future ripped straight out of '50s science fiction comics. Seeing as how his Reddit following talk about him like Tony Stark, I feel like Musk knows exactly who he's courting. The chasm between Musk's superhero image and his Twitter meltdowns and missed deadlines, is likely what makes people be skeptical/annoyed with his communication style.
- true_tuna 7y ago
  I was a member of his cult of personality till the debacle in Thailand and his utter inability to handle criticism for his absurd proposed course of action. Couple that with his weird lashing out at employees and insane persecution of whistleblowers and I’m done. Once you see it in that light he’s just another petty tyrant. I don’t imagine he’ll go very far with the current level of emotional maturity. It’s too bad because many of his initiatives are really beneficial.

elisharobinson 7y ago

its not hype if the tech is real.

untog 7y ago
And it is hype if the tech isn't real. I mean, it's called "auto pilot". It is not an auto pilot. It is not nearly ready for unattended driving. And yet, people use it as such and are surprised when they crash into a divider or something. There's a built in assumption that because the tech has progressed from point A to point B that it'll easily move to point C in the same amount of time. That's not at all guaranteed, and for all of the millions (billions?) being poured into self driving tech we don't have to show for it. It may be many, many years before we do.
- derekp7 7y ago
  I fully understand the frustration with people thinking Tesla's driver assist is more than what it is. But what I don't understand is the issue people have with the product name. Almost all commercial airlines have an autopilot, but not one of them flies without an actual pilot and co-pilot in the cockpit. The only thing an airplane autopilot does is keep the bearing and altitude constant -- Tesla's "autopilot" actually does a bit more than that. Is the outrage over calling it "autopilot" based on the public's misunderstanding of how an airplane's autopilot works?
  - untog 7y ago
    My issue with the name is that it's a bad comparison at best, and misleading at worst. Yes, a plane autopilot only maintains bearing and altitude, but that's also all a plane needs to do. An equivalent system in a car would be utterly useless, so if you're taking Tesla's terms literally then they're telling you they've made something that's of no use to you. If, instead, you think of an autopilot as being something that allows the pilot to take their attention off the controls to do something else then, well, Tesla's autopilot explicitly doesn't do that. So it's not the right name when taken either literally or figuratively, so little wonder people get confused.

meekstro 7y ago

The question no-one asked. How difficult is it for BYD to clone his autopilot chip and will that stop the Chinese from exporting knockoffs because I'm certain they can close the data and software gap instantly by swapping out a harddrive or 10. I think he's got 10 years before the chinese chip fabs catch up. Musk's question how did Tesla build the best AI chip for driving in the world without being a chip designer was the far more interesting yet overlooked question. Musk has a talent for framing problems appropriately so that optimum solutions emerge with a minimum deployment of capital. And he's not secretive about it, he applies his training in physics and phenomenal knowledge to make good bets and eventually identifies and acknowledges his mistakes. Tesla doesn't have an advertising budget. Musk couldn't care less about it's shareprice but I think he will be a bit perturbed if identical technology emerges faster than he foresaw as was Apple when the Android ecosystem emerged. As it stands with his chip and data it is game set and match for autonomous driving which is a software game and the leader takes all the data and a fully autonomous vehicle is worth significantly more than non-autonomous vehicle and if you are data scientist you probably want to work for the company with the best data-set and highest remuneration. The data is the gold and Tesla owns it and no-one can steal it and use it for at least 10 years by which point battery vehicles will be cheaper than petrol vehicles which is the major problem with the model 3. It is currently uneconomic against a toyota corolla but gains ground with every piece of battery and energy storage research that musk does not pay for.

dominotw 7y ago
> Musk couldn't care less about it's shareprice seems to be constantly tweeting about it though.
FireBeyond 7y ago
> Tesla doesn't have an advertising budget. This is an oft-repeated trope, but one look at Tesla's reports will show it's not the case. Last year, approaching $100M (I want to say certainly greater than $80M) spent on "Advertising and marketing".
- zaroth 7y ago
  Absolutely true. I’m sure the Referral program cost is the majority of that. They have a highly effective, modestly funded, non-traditional advertising strategy.

jessewmc 7y ago

I really hope someone else eats their lunch soon. There are some genuine improvements to the status quo in their cars, but the unbelievably poor quality control and silicon valley user hostility (near impossibility of DIY repairs & parts acquisition) should not be part of the future of cars. This is to say nothing about their quixotic attitude towards self-driving in the face of competitors using better methods.

thatoneuser 7y ago
Who exactly would eat their lunch? They're doing a ton of things the traditional auto industry Sat on for years not thinking about. I don't really see anyone doing all the things tesla does while still using parts ubiquitous enough for individuals to do their own repairs.