5 ms·

My first thought seeing the headline was of this quote: "What came first – the music or the misery? Did I listen to the music because I was miserable? Or was I

by e12e 8y ago

My first thought seeing the headline was of this quote: "What came first – the music or the misery? Did I listen to the music because I was miserable? Or was I miserable because I listened to the music? Do all those records turn you into a melancholy person?" - Nick Hornby, High Fidelity Also relevant from the book: "People worry about kids playing with guns, and teenagers watching violent videos; we are scared that some sort of culture of violence will take them over. Nobody worries about kids listening to thousands - literally thousands - of songs about broken hearts and rejection and pain and misery and loss."

b_tterc_p 8y ago
Maybe I’m wrong but broken heart sad seems a lot more transient than older generations of sad music like, say, Pink Floyd’s The Wall and The Final Cut. I would wager it’s really not a problem.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Floyd have their own broken heart sad songs (Wish you where here, nobody home, and lotsa others). Though the Final Cut was a flop, and barely listened to/mentioned today, so kind of transient itself. But of course tons of 70s and 60s era music are "broken heart sad" as well -- it's not like some unique today phenomenon. Broken heart sad takes a good 50% of all songs since time immemorial... If anything, today it's not "broken heart sad" anymore, but some hip-hop/pop version of "how cool/rich I am" or "how badass I am", looking at the charts.
  - rednerrus 8y ago
    Wish you were here is not a broken heart sad song. It's about disillusionment.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      Not broken heart from a lover, but broken heart about a friend. Still a broken heart.
      - ArrayList 8y ago
        Let's be clear, it's about Syd Barrett.
      - gb221 8y ago
        Syd Barrett supposedly
  - Bartweiss 8y ago
    On the other hand, I'd be tempted to say The Final Cut was a flop precisely because it was so relentlessly bleak. It's not even sad so much as hopeless, like The Wall with all the angry and optimistic parts distilled away. Two Suns in the Sunset is so desolate that it's tough to follow with any other music at all. The mood where that's relatable is way out past sad, which does it no favors selling copies or landing on playlists I agree that it's not really a generational thing, though. Timbuk3 landed one big hit (The Future's So Bright), and it was a sarcastic song about nuclear war that landed unironic play on graduation playlists. Their other, overtly depressing stuff got no traction at all. Rap, punk, and most any other genre has similarly hopeless, unromantic sad songs - they're just not approachable enough to top charts or endure in people's memories.
- jerf 8y ago
  Yeah, there's definitely a difference between "I'm sad because my baby ran around town" (say, Runaround Sue [1]) and "I'm sad because my romantic relationship broke down and that's just an example of the fundamental existential horror of being a living human that none can ever escape from and nothing will ever improve because we're fundamentally and irrevocably trapped" (The Wall). [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NQLmUOgT5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NQLmUOgT5M
- Bartweiss 8y ago
  I think that sort of sad is still around, although I agree that Floyd was a rather special case of a popular chart-topping band putting it out. There's definitely a difference between broken heart sad and what I'd maybe call depression sad or ennui sad.
deadbunny 8y ago
Exactly what I thought when I saw the title as well.
okmokmz 8y ago
Worrying about kids listening to sad music is equally as absurd as worrying about kids watching violent movies/tv or playing violent video games and thinking that "some sort of culture of violence will take them over" edit: here's evidence >Journalists and policy makers do their constituencies a disservice in cases where they link acts of real-world violence with the perpetrators’ exposure to violent video games or other violent media. There’s little scientific evidence to support the connection, and it may distract us from addressing those issues that we know contribute to real-world violence. https://div46amplifier.com/2017/06/12/news-media-public-education-and-public-policy-committee/ https://div46amplifier.com/2017/06/12/news-media-public-educ... >Unexpectedly, many of the results were suggestive of a decrease in violent crime in response to violent video games. Possible explanations for these unforeseen findings are discussed and researchers are cautioned about generalizing the results from laboratory and correlational studies to severe forms of violent behavior. https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fppm0000030 https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fppm0000030 >Results indicated that studies of VVGs and aggression appear to be particularly prone to false positive results. Studies of VVGs and prosocial behavior, by contrast are heterogeneous and did not demonstrate any indication of false positive results. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160252717300973?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602... >Researchers in Germany used functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) on long-term players of violent video games and found that they had the same neural response to emotionally provocative images as non-gamers. This finding suggests that empathy is not blunted by playing such games long-term. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170308081057.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170308081057.h... >Results indicated that publication bias does exist for experimental studies of aggressive behavior, as well as for non-experimental studies of aggressive behavior and aggressive thoughts. Research in other areas, including prosocial behavior and experimental studies of aggressive thoughts were less susceptible to publication bias. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178907000055 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135917890... >During the video game epoch, youth violence in the United States and elsewhere has plummeted to 40-year lows, not risen as would have been expected if the 2005 APA resolution were accurate. Although we do not assert video games are responsible for this decline (such would be an ecological fallacy), this decline in societal violence is in conflict with claims that violent video games and interactive media are important public health concerns. The statistical data are simply not bearing out this concern and should not be ignored. https://www.scribd.com/doc/223284732/Scholar-s-Open-Letter-to-the-APA-Task-Force-On-Violent-Media-Opposing-APA-Policy-Statements-on-Violent-Media https://www.scribd.com/doc/223284732/Scholar-s-Open-Letter-t...
daeken 8y ago
This is a tangent, but if you haven't listened to Lonely Avenue, the album that Ben Folds and Nick Hornby did together ... Do that. Ever since I heard it, I can't see his name without the lyrics popping into my head: "Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know: he's got his own blog"
Fnoord 8y ago
Lyrics tend to not be understood by the DJs and publishers. Can you imagine Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds being broadcast while the DJ and publishers understood the lyrics? For a more ontopic subject, think of heroin usage (Red Hot Chili Peppers) or songs describing automutilation (quite common in goth music). Examples like these make the term depression less abstract.
- noitsnot 8y ago
  Lucy in the Sky isn't about drug use.
  - Fnoord 8y ago
    If you consider the era, type of music, and the title (Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds is the correct title) I'd say the evidence points in that direction. Although Lennon denied this, he admitted he was inspired by LSD. However he has a good reason to deny this: to avoid the radio ban. Perhaps we will never know for sure. We do know for sure it was perceived as such. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamond...
    - noitsnot 8y ago
      Lennon denied it on the Dick Cavett show in '71, years after it was released and would have been near radio. Maybe there was another reason to deny but I don't think radio is it.

by e12e 8y ago

b_tterc_p 8y ago

Maybe I’m wrong but broken heart sad seems a lot more transient than older generations of sad music like, say, Pink Floyd’s The Wall and The Final Cut. I would wager it’s really not a problem.

coldtea 8y ago
Floyd have their own broken heart sad songs (Wish you where here, nobody home, and lotsa others). Though the Final Cut was a flop, and barely listened to/mentioned today, so kind of transient itself. But of course tons of 70s and 60s era music are "broken heart sad" as well -- it's not like some unique today phenomenon. Broken heart sad takes a good 50% of all songs since time immemorial... If anything, today it's not "broken heart sad" anymore, but some hip-hop/pop version of "how cool/rich I am" or "how badass I am", looking at the charts.
- rednerrus 8y ago
  Wish you were here is not a broken heart sad song. It's about disillusionment.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Not broken heart from a lover, but broken heart about a friend. Still a broken heart.
    - ArrayList 8y ago
      Let's be clear, it's about Syd Barrett.
    - gb221 8y ago
      Syd Barrett supposedly
- Bartweiss 8y ago
  On the other hand, I'd be tempted to say The Final Cut was a flop precisely because it was so relentlessly bleak. It's not even sad so much as hopeless, like The Wall with all the angry and optimistic parts distilled away. Two Suns in the Sunset is so desolate that it's tough to follow with any other music at all. The mood where that's relatable is way out past sad, which does it no favors selling copies or landing on playlists I agree that it's not really a generational thing, though. Timbuk3 landed one big hit (The Future's So Bright), and it was a sarcastic song about nuclear war that landed unironic play on graduation playlists. Their other, overtly depressing stuff got no traction at all. Rap, punk, and most any other genre has similarly hopeless, unromantic sad songs - they're just not approachable enough to top charts or endure in people's memories.
jerf 8y ago
Yeah, there's definitely a difference between "I'm sad because my baby ran around town" (say, Runaround Sue [1]) and "I'm sad because my romantic relationship broke down and that's just an example of the fundamental existential horror of being a living human that none can ever escape from and nothing will ever improve because we're fundamentally and irrevocably trapped" (The Wall). [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NQLmUOgT5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NQLmUOgT5M
Bartweiss 8y ago
I think that sort of sad is still around, although I agree that Floyd was a rather special case of a popular chart-topping band putting it out. There's definitely a difference between broken heart sad and what I'd maybe call depression sad or ennui sad.

deadbunny 8y ago

Exactly what I thought when I saw the title as well.

okmokmz 8y ago

Worrying about kids listening to sad music is equally as absurd as worrying about kids watching violent movies/tv or playing violent video games and thinking that "some sort of culture of violence will take them over" edit: here's evidence >Journalists and policy makers do their constituencies a disservice in cases where they link acts of real-world violence with the perpetrators’ exposure to violent video games or other violent media. There’s little scientific evidence to support the connection, and it may distract us from addressing those issues that we know contribute to real-world violence. https://div46amplifier.com/2017/06/12/news-media-public-education-and-public-policy-committee/ https://div46amplifier.com/2017/06/12/news-media-public-educ... >Unexpectedly, many of the results were suggestive of a decrease in violent crime in response to violent video games. Possible explanations for these unforeseen findings are discussed and researchers are cautioned about generalizing the results from laboratory and correlational studies to severe forms of violent behavior. https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fppm0000030 https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fppm0000030 >Results indicated that studies of VVGs and aggression appear to be particularly prone to false positive results. Studies of VVGs and prosocial behavior, by contrast are heterogeneous and did not demonstrate any indication of false positive results. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160252717300973?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602... >Researchers in Germany used functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) on long-term players of violent video games and found that they had the same neural response to emotionally provocative images as non-gamers. This finding suggests that empathy is not blunted by playing such games long-term. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170308081057.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170308081057.h... >Results indicated that publication bias does exist for experimental studies of aggressive behavior, as well as for non-experimental studies of aggressive behavior and aggressive thoughts. Research in other areas, including prosocial behavior and experimental studies of aggressive thoughts were less susceptible to publication bias. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178907000055 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135917890... >During the video game epoch, youth violence in the United States and elsewhere has plummeted to 40-year lows, not risen as would have been expected if the 2005 APA resolution were accurate. Although we do not assert video games are responsible for this decline (such would be an ecological fallacy), this decline in societal violence is in conflict with claims that violent video games and interactive media are important public health concerns. The statistical data are simply not bearing out this concern and should not be ignored. https://www.scribd.com/doc/223284732/Scholar-s-Open-Letter-to-the-APA-Task-Force-On-Violent-Media-Opposing-APA-Policy-Statements-on-Violent-Media https://www.scribd.com/doc/223284732/Scholar-s-Open-Letter-t...

daeken 8y ago

This is a tangent, but if you haven't listened to Lonely Avenue, the album that Ben Folds and Nick Hornby did together ... Do that. Ever since I heard it, I can't see his name without the lyrics popping into my head: "Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know: he's got his own blog"

Fnoord 8y ago

Lyrics tend to not be understood by the DJs and publishers. Can you imagine Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds being broadcast while the DJ and publishers understood the lyrics? For a more ontopic subject, think of heroin usage (Red Hot Chili Peppers) or songs describing automutilation (quite common in goth music). Examples like these make the term depression less abstract.

noitsnot 8y ago
Lucy in the Sky isn't about drug use.
- Fnoord 8y ago
  If you consider the era, type of music, and the title (Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds is the correct title) I'd say the evidence points in that direction. Although Lennon denied this, he admitted he was inspired by LSD. However he has a good reason to deny this: to avoid the radio ban. Perhaps we will never know for sure. We do know for sure it was perceived as such. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamonds https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_in_the_Sky_with_Diamond...
  - noitsnot 8y ago
    Lennon denied it on the Dick Cavett show in '71, years after it was released and would have been near radio. Maybe there was another reason to deny but I don't think radio is it.