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>Aren't most mental disorders just behaviors that differ from the norm and make it difficult for those people to function in everyday society? (Story time.) I

>Aren't most mental disorders just behaviors that differ from the norm and make it difficult for those people to function in everyday society? (Story time.) I went to a presentation one time at work about mental health. (It was part of the government's mental health awareness campaign[0].) In this presentation, the presenter mentioned bathing/lack of changing clothes as a marker for possible mental health issues. As someone who grew up in a very poor area, where the water came from wells (which oft could dry-up) or the folk couldn't afford but to wash their clothes once a month in the local washateria (if that), I took issue with this idea. From a privileged, lower-middle class or above perspective, sure, you could say that it's a possible indicator of mental health issues; however, if this were a normalised version of someone's life, having growing up so poor/destitute, would it really be a sign of mental health issues or would it just be a byproduct of their lower social-class life? So, I guess I have to say that the answer to your question is, "yes": Your "norm" could be vastly different from someone else's. [0] - https://www.mentalhealthireland.ie/ https://www.mentalhealthireland.ie/

programbreeding 7y ago
I think you have a totally valid point/concern, but that logic could be applied to nearly everything. For example, anorexia is a marker for possible mental health issues, but someone who doesn't eat because they can't afford it doesn't have anorexia. I think it's assumed that a diagnosis/marker is valid only to that particular person based on their background.
LyndsySimon 7y ago
Fair enough. I'd modify that statement to read "behaviors that differ from _their_ norm". If someone suddenly changes their behavior without apparent cause, I'd consider that to be an indicator of something being amiss. Of course I'm not a doctor, much less a psychiatrist.
penagwin 7y ago
I think the real qualifier is if lack of self-care is due to personal choice then environmental resources. You don't have clean water to regularly wash clothes/yourself? That's not a personal choice (in this instance). If you DO have clean water and aren't taking care of your basic hygene, then there's an issue. If asked "why" and the answer is "no point" then that's a pretty clear sign of depression. "I don't know how to use my washer" would likely be an indicator of anxiety (because a "mentally fit" person should be able to figure it out, or seek help with figuring it out), etc.
- jackbravo 7y ago
  But people tend to get used to the environments they grow in. So if you had low access to water, you end up learning to shower only once in a while, and you take it as something natural. Like the cliche (racist cliche?) of people in America complaining about people from Europe or Asia having a more apparent body odor. This also reminds me of the movie (or books) Dune. Where people from Arrakis are used to drinking very little water, and deem people from other planets as "fat on water" because they can even smell their "excess" off water on their bodies, and see it as a sign of wastefulness.
asveikau 7y ago
What you should watch for is not the habits themselves, but sudden changes in such habits. Some conditions like bipolar, schizophrenia, schizoaffective, etc. can be episodic, and see abrupt changes in things like hygiene during these transitions.
anjc 7y ago
Access to water in Ireland is assumed to such an extent that it isn't even listed in the ESRI's criteria for poverty. As such, it's very obvious that lack of bathing/changing clothes will almost NEVER be due to lack of access to water. Even temporary halting sites must have access to water considered by local councils. > From a privileged, lower-middle class or above perspective Very confused as to why you think 'water' might be limited to the demographic who work as teachers, Gardaí, and above, or why access to water indicates privilege.
- jackbravo 7y ago
  In Mexico it is more common to have water shortages on low income areas in big cities. Whereas rich areas can even have their own water wells.
  - tom_ 7y ago
    Right, but this post refers to the Republic of Ireland, a sovereign state in the British Isles, a part of the world where there is, on average, zero shortage of water in general. It literally falls out of the sky.
    - maxheadroom 7y ago
      Because Ireland has no immigration and, therefore, everyone who lives and/or posts from Ireland is automatically Irish, yeah? /s
- maxheadroom 7y ago
  Intsead of assuming an amicable posit, say that I were an immigrant (hint: I am) or the like, you - instead - opt for the worst: That I must've come from the land of Eire and that I must, therefore, be talking out of my arse - because the ESRI doesn't constitute access to water as criteria for poverty and because we could only be talking about someone who grew-up and lived in Ireland their whole life, yeah? So, pardon me for asking this question but does this not demonstrate the myopic view that the aforementioned privelege entails? In other words, just because you (as an overall whole) had this kind of access (e.g.: water, socialised medicine, etc.) your entire life, it doesn't equate to everyone having had the same, yeah?
fit2rule 7y ago
>would it really be a sign of mental health issues or would it just be a byproduct of their lower social-class life? Indeed, I think you've hit on a modern malady - the belief that modern society is no longer engaged in class warfare, and that psychological 'ordering' of society is no longer aligned on those boundaries which benefit the ruling class. Because, in fact: that belief would be wrong.
eeZah7Ux 7y ago
"marker for possible ..." != "clear evidence"

programbreeding 7y ago

I think you have a totally valid point/concern, but that logic could be applied to nearly everything. For example, anorexia is a marker for possible mental health issues, but someone who doesn't eat because they can't afford it doesn't have anorexia. I think it's assumed that a diagnosis/marker is valid only to that particular person based on their background.

LyndsySimon 7y ago

Fair enough. I'd modify that statement to read "behaviors that differ from _their_ norm". If someone suddenly changes their behavior without apparent cause, I'd consider that to be an indicator of something being amiss. Of course I'm not a doctor, much less a psychiatrist.

penagwin 7y ago

I think the real qualifier is if lack of self-care is due to personal choice then environmental resources. You don't have clean water to regularly wash clothes/yourself? That's not a personal choice (in this instance). If you DO have clean water and aren't taking care of your basic hygene, then there's an issue. If asked "why" and the answer is "no point" then that's a pretty clear sign of depression. "I don't know how to use my washer" would likely be an indicator of anxiety (because a "mentally fit" person should be able to figure it out, or seek help with figuring it out), etc.

jackbravo 7y ago
But people tend to get used to the environments they grow in. So if you had low access to water, you end up learning to shower only once in a while, and you take it as something natural. Like the cliche (racist cliche?) of people in America complaining about people from Europe or Asia having a more apparent body odor. This also reminds me of the movie (or books) Dune. Where people from Arrakis are used to drinking very little water, and deem people from other planets as "fat on water" because they can even smell their "excess" off water on their bodies, and see it as a sign of wastefulness.

asveikau 7y ago

What you should watch for is not the habits themselves, but sudden changes in such habits. Some conditions like bipolar, schizophrenia, schizoaffective, etc. can be episodic, and see abrupt changes in things like hygiene during these transitions.

anjc 7y ago

Access to water in Ireland is assumed to such an extent that it isn't even listed in the ESRI's criteria for poverty. As such, it's very obvious that lack of bathing/changing clothes will almost NEVER be due to lack of access to water. Even temporary halting sites must have access to water considered by local councils. > From a privileged, lower-middle class or above perspective Very confused as to why you think 'water' might be limited to the demographic who work as teachers, Gardaí, and above, or why access to water indicates privilege.

jackbravo 7y ago
In Mexico it is more common to have water shortages on low income areas in big cities. Whereas rich areas can even have their own water wells.
- tom_ 7y ago
  Right, but this post refers to the Republic of Ireland, a sovereign state in the British Isles, a part of the world where there is, on average, zero shortage of water in general. It literally falls out of the sky.
  - maxheadroom 7y ago
    Because Ireland has no immigration and, therefore, everyone who lives and/or posts from Ireland is automatically Irish, yeah? /s
maxheadroom 7y ago
Intsead of assuming an amicable posit, say that I were an immigrant (hint: I am) or the like, you - instead - opt for the worst: That I must've come from the land of Eire and that I must, therefore, be talking out of my arse - because the ESRI doesn't constitute access to water as criteria for poverty and because we could only be talking about someone who grew-up and lived in Ireland their whole life, yeah? So, pardon me for asking this question but does this not demonstrate the myopic view that the aforementioned privelege entails? In other words, just because you (as an overall whole) had this kind of access (e.g.: water, socialised medicine, etc.) your entire life, it doesn't equate to everyone having had the same, yeah?

fit2rule 7y ago

>would it really be a sign of mental health issues or would it just be a byproduct of their lower social-class life? Indeed, I think you've hit on a modern malady - the belief that modern society is no longer engaged in class warfare, and that psychological 'ordering' of society is no longer aligned on those boundaries which benefit the ruling class. Because, in fact: that belief would be wrong.

eeZah7Ux 7y ago

"marker for possible ..." != "clear evidence"