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Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. But in China they were slow at execution? Does this read right to you? Or maybe there is a regulatory ang

Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. But in China they were slow at execution? Does this read right to you? Or maybe there is a regulatory angle which no one is talking about because...China.

PakG1 8y ago
Living and working in China and having experienced Amazon's competitors, yes, that does read completely right to me. Amazon is crushing it at everything back home. I don't hesitate to buy many things from Amazon when at home. But in China, the jd.com and taobao.com experience is way better than what I experience from Amazon when I'm at home.
- JamesBarney 8y ago
  I'm curious is this because jd.com is far ahead of American Amazon or because Chinese Amazon is far behind American Amazon?
  - zzh8829 8y ago
    Having lived in both China and US/Canada, I would say jd and taobao is far ahead of American Amazon. Some key differentiators include delivery speed, UI/UX, product offerings and the ability to chat with merchants instantly.
    - cthalupa 8y ago
      Amazon has same day delivery and prime now in a lot of the US - I can get the same order before 10 get before 18 from Amazon in my town. I don't have a ton of experience with UI/UX on JD or TMall, but my experience with alibaba and aliexpress hasn't left me particularly impressed there. But I also have no problem with Amazon's interface and experience in general, which I know lots of people don't like. Product offerings have never been an issue for me. The overwhelming majority of my online purchases come from Amazon, and the ones that haven't made recently have been pretty niche - handmade Japanese chef knives, limited run board games, manufacturer direct audio equipment... I can get assembly for furniture, etc., as an add-on for a lot of purchases on amazon, which someone mentioned as a differentiator in another thread. I can't talk to the merchants instantly, but I don't know that I really want or need to. I rarely have a question for them, and when I have, I generally don't want to get bogged down in a live chat or phone call or whatever, so the email system on Amazon works fine for me.
      - tracker1 8y ago
        What you are talking about is a US experience... it's not like that in China from Amazon. They haven't built out locally, and have neglected to acknowledge local competition and invest in local infrastructure properly.
        cthalupa 8y ago
        > What you are talking about is a US experience... Correct. Because that's what this comment thread is about. Grandparent: >I'm curious is this because jd.com is far ahead of American Amazon or because Chinese Amazon is far behind American Amazon? Parent: > I would say jd and taobao is far ahead of American Amazon The question was whether or not JD and Taobao in China are better than Amazon is in America. Not whether or not Amazon in China is as good as JD and Taobao are in China.
- product50 8y ago
  Well you don't know why they haven't been able to execute quickly. Maybe that approval they need to start a service wasn't given? Maybe the partnership they needed from the local delivery channel was delayed? Maybe the sellers were restricted to sell only on domestic companies?
  - adinobro 8y ago
    JD and TMall have about close to 1,000 distribution points in the major cities with at least 10,000 delivery people each. Same day delivery is standard (order before 10am and it arrives by 6pm) for a lot of products. Install and building furniture at your home is also a common feature. Two day delivery is slow. Amazon isn't willing to invest the money and for most products on their site they still don't stock products locally. Half the time I find products on their site I have to wait 2/3+ weeks for it to be imported. There is nothing stopping them having local stock but ... they don't.
    - PakG1 8y ago
      I don't think it's logical for them to have local stock. That would require a HUGE capital investment to build up infrastructure and distribution points to go head to head with the locals. I bet Amazon's CFO looks at that and then tells Bezos, "Hey, these numbers are completely irrational, let's spend the money elsewhere where we'll have a better return on investment, please."
      - HatchedLake721 8y ago
        It’s been logical to do it in a domestic market to become a market leader but it’s illogical to do it in a new market?
        jlarocco 7y ago
        I think there's something to the OP's point. Amazon's infrastructure roll out paid off in the United States because there was little competition. They rushed out infrastructure and cornered the online shopping and delivery market. Walmart and the other big stores had an entirely different business model and their warehouses and infrastructure took time to adjust and catch up, with Amazon still in the lead. In China, the local competitors already have a significant head start on their infrastructure, and Amazon would be playing catch up in a relatively unfriendly market. It could take them forever to recoup the investment, if they ever did. Unfortunately, they can't compete without that infrastructure in place, so what else can they do but leave?
paganel 8y ago
> Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world I've mentioned it in another comment, too, but Amazon is not present in my Eastern European country (Romania), where Alibaba beats them by a large margin (even though they're also not officially launched here). I've just done a quick search and it seems Amazon is not winning it in Russia either, nor in Ukraine, to say nothing of India. As such, to say that they are winning "everywhere else in the world" is not really true, they're only winning in North America and some Western European countries (too lazy to search what really happens in South America or Africa).
- product50 8y ago
  Dude do some research. They are winning or close to winning in India, South East Asia, Western Europe, Australia, US, Dubai etc.
  - paganel 8y ago
    I'm really surprised about India, that's news to me, I knew about the US and Western Europe situation but that doesn't equate to the rest of the whole world, as I was saying. I have to say that I'm a little skeptical about your claim of them dominating SE Asia, as a quick search drove me to this article from September 2018 [1] where it says that they're about to enter the market in Indonesia (which dwarfs Australia in terms of future potential) after Alibaba had done the same thing. The expected investment also doesn't match Alibaba's, the Chinese have apparently come up with $1.1 billion while Amazon is coming with only half of that value, i.e. $600 million. But maybe they're doing better in Thailand or Vietnam. [1] https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/320410 https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/320410
    - sjwright 8y ago
      As an Australian I can confirm that Amazon launching here was a hotly anticipated disappointment. Amazon US is (was) far more popular in Australia than Amazon AU is now, for many reasons including price and breadth of product. In order to force use of the AU site they blocked sales from the US site to Australian customers, which caused endless irritation and frustration.
draw_down 8y ago
"Does this seem right to you?" isn't really an argument; it still seems crazy to me to blame everything but Amazon for Amazon's lack of success. China is a different market and American companies shouldn't just expect to walk in.
throwaway44562 8y ago
Amazon is definitely not winning in Taiwan.
doktrin 8y ago
> Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. Disagree. I live in northern europe and haven't used Amazon since moving here. Every single product is "doesn't ship to your location" etc., there are domestic and local competitors that are superior - to say nothing of the China based suppliers, and of course amazon has sub-par customer service even in the US - but there at least their infrastructure and product catalogue let them carry the day without breaking a sweat. I'm sure that if you live in a market that is well served by Amazon.co.uk or Amazon.de they offer a user experience that's at least broadly similar to that in the US, but e-commerce is an evolving beast. As far as I can tell amazon hasn't changed meaningfully in the last 5 or 6 years (and their website is famously, almost comically, static), only a matter of time before someone else starts beating them at their own game even in core markets.
Tsubasachan 8y ago
Not true. https://www.bol.com/nl/ https://www.bol.com/nl/ Amazon isn't some kind of god. If someone else is cheaper, faster and already well established they can be beaten.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
seemuch 8y ago
That is hardly a convincing evidence. The IT industry in China is the only one in the world that is comparable with that in US. In a lot of areas, it is even better than US. I think online shopping can be counted as one of the areas. No other counties is capable of providing the level of competition as the Chinrse market does. Be responsible to your own loss, please. That’s what grownups do.
chillacy 8y ago
Ebay has been a lot more dominant relative to Amazon for awhile in UK, FR, DE, AU
ClassyJacket 7y ago
>Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. Amazon is practically non-existent in Australia.
jimmydef 7y ago
This is a false statement. Amazon is completely outcompeted by equivalent firms such as Alibaba-owned Lazada here in southeast asia. I think the only place Amazon has "won" is in North America and Western Europe. But sure, continue thinking that it's the evil Chinese making things unfair for Amazon. This is complacency that caused Japanese cars to overtake American cars in the 60s.
dunstad 7y ago
Honestly they're not doing great here in Japan. Usually I order stuff from the .com version because .jp is really lacking. Most people who live here and speak Japanese natively just order from the separate online stores of Japanese businesses I believe.
wsc981 7y ago
I don't believe Amazon is really well known in Thailand either. I live in Thailand and from what I've seen people tend to buy stuff online at shops like Alibaba, Central [0], Lazada [1], Shoppee [2], perhaps some others as well. I think Amazon is virtually unheard of here, except by expats. --- [0]: https://www.central.co.th/en/ https://www.central.co.th/en/ [1]: https://www.lazada.co.th https://www.lazada.co.th [2]: https://shopee.co.th https://shopee.co.th
duchenne 7y ago
> Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. FWIW, Amazon is also quite small in South Korea, which is the #1 country in ecommerce spend per capita. There, the market is fragmented into many players big and small, and the delivery times are much shorter than in the US. For instance, if you order on Martet Curly before 11pm, you get fresh grosseries delivered the next day in the morning.
profalseidol 7y ago
> Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. Amerikan exceptionalism! In my country, Amazon doesn't even exist. And we use several different ones. The song "We're all living in Amerika" doesn't apply anymore you know?
apexalpha 7y ago
There are many countries where Amazon is out competed by local companies that simply sprung up earlier.
evandijk70 7y ago
Amazon is not available in the Netherlands. There is already a large party, bol.com, that through deals with the post-office can deliver same-day delivery throughout the Netherlands, provided the order came in before 2pm. Otherwise, they provide next-day delivery. They were acquired by the largest super market chain (Albert Heijn), so now you can pick up packages at the super market throughout the day and in the evening. I think both of these advantages are difficult to match by amazon, and they were probably the reason that amazon chose not to enter the Dutch market. Just because Amazon has 'won' in most places, does not mean they can not be beaten by a player who knows the local market and has better connections.
ksec 7y ago
Can you name me where it has "won"? Apart from US, UK, Germany, Not entirely sure about Canada, Italy, France, Spain. And I can give you India as they are fighting hard. China, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong ( Doesn't even have a presence ) Most of SEA, Australia, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland. all of these failed in one way or another or is in no way the majority online market leader. One of the problem with online world is that most International news outlet are really US focused and they publish article saying the world when they meant Western World, US focus, EU secondary, and largely ignore Asia, Africa and South America.
ionised 7y ago
Why do you think Amazon has 'won' elsewhere in the world?

PakG1 8y ago

Living and working in China and having experienced Amazon's competitors, yes, that does read completely right to me. Amazon is crushing it at everything back home. I don't hesitate to buy many things from Amazon when at home. But in China, the jd.com and taobao.com experience is way better than what I experience from Amazon when I'm at home.

JamesBarney 8y ago
I'm curious is this because jd.com is far ahead of American Amazon or because Chinese Amazon is far behind American Amazon?
- zzh8829 8y ago
  Having lived in both China and US/Canada, I would say jd and taobao is far ahead of American Amazon. Some key differentiators include delivery speed, UI/UX, product offerings and the ability to chat with merchants instantly.
  - cthalupa 8y ago
    Amazon has same day delivery and prime now in a lot of the US - I can get the same order before 10 get before 18 from Amazon in my town. I don't have a ton of experience with UI/UX on JD or TMall, but my experience with alibaba and aliexpress hasn't left me particularly impressed there. But I also have no problem with Amazon's interface and experience in general, which I know lots of people don't like. Product offerings have never been an issue for me. The overwhelming majority of my online purchases come from Amazon, and the ones that haven't made recently have been pretty niche - handmade Japanese chef knives, limited run board games, manufacturer direct audio equipment... I can get assembly for furniture, etc., as an add-on for a lot of purchases on amazon, which someone mentioned as a differentiator in another thread. I can't talk to the merchants instantly, but I don't know that I really want or need to. I rarely have a question for them, and when I have, I generally don't want to get bogged down in a live chat or phone call or whatever, so the email system on Amazon works fine for me.
    - tracker1 8y ago
      What you are talking about is a US experience... it's not like that in China from Amazon. They haven't built out locally, and have neglected to acknowledge local competition and invest in local infrastructure properly.
      - cthalupa 8y ago
        > What you are talking about is a US experience... Correct. Because that's what this comment thread is about. Grandparent: >I'm curious is this because jd.com is far ahead of American Amazon or because Chinese Amazon is far behind American Amazon? Parent: > I would say jd and taobao is far ahead of American Amazon The question was whether or not JD and Taobao in China are better than Amazon is in America. Not whether or not Amazon in China is as good as JD and Taobao are in China.
product50 8y ago
Well you don't know why they haven't been able to execute quickly. Maybe that approval they need to start a service wasn't given? Maybe the partnership they needed from the local delivery channel was delayed? Maybe the sellers were restricted to sell only on domestic companies?
- adinobro 8y ago
  JD and TMall have about close to 1,000 distribution points in the major cities with at least 10,000 delivery people each. Same day delivery is standard (order before 10am and it arrives by 6pm) for a lot of products. Install and building furniture at your home is also a common feature. Two day delivery is slow. Amazon isn't willing to invest the money and for most products on their site they still don't stock products locally. Half the time I find products on their site I have to wait 2/3+ weeks for it to be imported. There is nothing stopping them having local stock but ... they don't.
  - PakG1 8y ago
    I don't think it's logical for them to have local stock. That would require a HUGE capital investment to build up infrastructure and distribution points to go head to head with the locals. I bet Amazon's CFO looks at that and then tells Bezos, "Hey, these numbers are completely irrational, let's spend the money elsewhere where we'll have a better return on investment, please."
    - HatchedLake721 8y ago
      It’s been logical to do it in a domestic market to become a market leader but it’s illogical to do it in a new market?
      - jlarocco 7y ago
        I think there's something to the OP's point. Amazon's infrastructure roll out paid off in the United States because there was little competition. They rushed out infrastructure and cornered the online shopping and delivery market. Walmart and the other big stores had an entirely different business model and their warehouses and infrastructure took time to adjust and catch up, with Amazon still in the lead. In China, the local competitors already have a significant head start on their infrastructure, and Amazon would be playing catch up in a relatively unfriendly market. It could take them forever to recoup the investment, if they ever did. Unfortunately, they can't compete without that infrastructure in place, so what else can they do but leave?

paganel 8y ago

> Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world I've mentioned it in another comment, too, but Amazon is not present in my Eastern European country (Romania), where Alibaba beats them by a large margin (even though they're also not officially launched here). I've just done a quick search and it seems Amazon is not winning it in Russia either, nor in Ukraine, to say nothing of India. As such, to say that they are winning "everywhere else in the world" is not really true, they're only winning in North America and some Western European countries (too lazy to search what really happens in South America or Africa).

product50 8y ago
Dude do some research. They are winning or close to winning in India, South East Asia, Western Europe, Australia, US, Dubai etc.
- paganel 8y ago
  I'm really surprised about India, that's news to me, I knew about the US and Western Europe situation but that doesn't equate to the rest of the whole world, as I was saying. I have to say that I'm a little skeptical about your claim of them dominating SE Asia, as a quick search drove me to this article from September 2018 [1] where it says that they're about to enter the market in Indonesia (which dwarfs Australia in terms of future potential) after Alibaba had done the same thing. The expected investment also doesn't match Alibaba's, the Chinese have apparently come up with $1.1 billion while Amazon is coming with only half of that value, i.e. $600 million. But maybe they're doing better in Thailand or Vietnam. [1] https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/320410 https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/320410
  - sjwright 8y ago
    As an Australian I can confirm that Amazon launching here was a hotly anticipated disappointment. Amazon US is (was) far more popular in Australia than Amazon AU is now, for many reasons including price and breadth of product. In order to force use of the AU site they blocked sales from the US site to Australian customers, which caused endless irritation and frustration.

draw_down 8y ago

"Does this seem right to you?" isn't really an argument; it still seems crazy to me to blame everything but Amazon for Amazon's lack of success. China is a different market and American companies shouldn't just expect to walk in.

throwaway44562 8y ago

Amazon is definitely not winning in Taiwan.

doktrin 8y ago

> Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. Disagree. I live in northern europe and haven't used Amazon since moving here. Every single product is "doesn't ship to your location" etc., there are domestic and local competitors that are superior - to say nothing of the China based suppliers, and of course amazon has sub-par customer service even in the US - but there at least their infrastructure and product catalogue let them carry the day without breaking a sweat. I'm sure that if you live in a market that is well served by Amazon.co.uk or Amazon.de they offer a user experience that's at least broadly similar to that in the US, but e-commerce is an evolving beast. As far as I can tell amazon hasn't changed meaningfully in the last 5 or 6 years (and their website is famously, almost comically, static), only a matter of time before someone else starts beating them at their own game even in core markets.

Tsubasachan 8y ago

Not true. https://www.bol.com/nl/ https://www.bol.com/nl/ Amazon isn't some kind of god. If someone else is cheaper, faster and already well established they can be beaten.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

seemuch 8y ago

That is hardly a convincing evidence. The IT industry in China is the only one in the world that is comparable with that in US. In a lot of areas, it is even better than US. I think online shopping can be counted as one of the areas. No other counties is capable of providing the level of competition as the Chinrse market does. Be responsible to your own loss, please. That’s what grownups do.

chillacy 8y ago

Ebay has been a lot more dominant relative to Amazon for awhile in UK, FR, DE, AU

ClassyJacket 7y ago

>Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. Amazon is practically non-existent in Australia.

jimmydef 7y ago

This is a false statement. Amazon is completely outcompeted by equivalent firms such as Alibaba-owned Lazada here in southeast asia. I think the only place Amazon has "won" is in North America and Western Europe. But sure, continue thinking that it's the evil Chinese making things unfair for Amazon. This is complacency that caused Japanese cars to overtake American cars in the 60s.

dunstad 7y ago

Honestly they're not doing great here in Japan. Usually I order stuff from the .com version because .jp is really lacking. Most people who live here and speak Japanese natively just order from the separate online stores of Japanese businesses I believe.

wsc981 7y ago

I don't believe Amazon is really well known in Thailand either. I live in Thailand and from what I've seen people tend to buy stuff online at shops like Alibaba, Central [0], Lazada [1], Shoppee [2], perhaps some others as well. I think Amazon is virtually unheard of here, except by expats. --- [0]: https://www.central.co.th/en/ https://www.central.co.th/en/ [1]: https://www.lazada.co.th https://www.lazada.co.th [2]: https://shopee.co.th https://shopee.co.th

duchenne 7y ago

> Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. FWIW, Amazon is also quite small in South Korea, which is the #1 country in ecommerce spend per capita. There, the market is fragmented into many players big and small, and the delivery times are much shorter than in the US. For instance, if you order on Martet Curly before 11pm, you get fresh grosseries delivered the next day in the morning.

profalseidol 7y ago

> Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. Amerikan exceptionalism! In my country, Amazon doesn't even exist. And we use several different ones. The song "We're all living in Amerika" doesn't apply anymore you know?

apexalpha 7y ago

There are many countries where Amazon is out competed by local companies that simply sprung up earlier.

evandijk70 7y ago

Amazon is not available in the Netherlands. There is already a large party, bol.com, that through deals with the post-office can deliver same-day delivery throughout the Netherlands, provided the order came in before 2pm. Otherwise, they provide next-day delivery. They were acquired by the largest super market chain (Albert Heijn), so now you can pick up packages at the super market throughout the day and in the evening. I think both of these advantages are difficult to match by amazon, and they were probably the reason that amazon chose not to enter the Dutch market. Just because Amazon has 'won' in most places, does not mean they can not be beaten by a player who knows the local market and has better connections.

ksec 7y ago

Can you name me where it has "won"? Apart from US, UK, Germany, Not entirely sure about Canada, Italy, France, Spain. And I can give you India as they are fighting hard. China, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong ( Doesn't even have a presence ) Most of SEA, Australia, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland. all of these failed in one way or another or is in no way the majority online market leader. One of the problem with online world is that most International news outlet are really US focused and they publish article saying the world when they meant Western World, US focus, EU secondary, and largely ignore Asia, Africa and South America.

ionised 7y ago

Why do you think Amazon has 'won' elsewhere in the world?