6 ms·

Why We Stink at Tackling Climate Change

44 points by imartin2k 8y ago

skilled 8y ago
Just watched this documentary by David Attenborough [1] the other day. It's unfortunate that still to this day, scientists and researches have to emphasize the phrase 'climate change'. It's sickening to know that rainforests are being bulldozed off by their hundreds of square kilometers every single day. And it's even more sickening that many think 'reforestation' is going to help this cause. Rainforests are an ecosystem with thousands of different plants and trees, which contribute to a healthy and flourishing environment. Thinking that you can replace this with a few different species is not the way to approach this problem. We really have to start looking at these issues from an individual point of view. We have to consider the fact that it might be our individual behavior that's going to inspire change in others. World's Elite has proven time and time again that they do not care for the planet, not unless there is big money involved. [1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-47988337 https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-47988337
- kryogen1c 8y ago
  You seem to be conflating two different issues. Eliminating plant and animal diversity is dangerous for various reasons, but has little to do with climate change. As to deforestation as a mechanism of CO2 removal vis a vis climate change, there are more trees now than there have ever been.
  - skilled 8y ago
    Ignorance is bliss!
    - simplesleeper 8y ago
      reforestation has been ongoing at a massive scale for quite a while now - I drove on a motorway for days across Brazil, for example, and only saw forests of trees lined in perfect rows by the road.
vages 8y ago
Despite the misanthropic title, the article ends on a positive note: > Thanks to our cultural evolution, we have cities, houses, and indoor plumbing. As a result, to the benefit of our health, we learned to use toilets. A primate with such behavioral flexibility, capable of going against millennia of natural selection, is nearly miraculous, yet an everyday event. Take heart. An originally arboreal primate species capable of being toilet-trained should also be capable of becoming planet-trained. In Aesop’s tale, remember, the tortoise triumphs. Because the hare and the tortoise are both part of ourselves, they can only win or lose together, which makes it all the more important that we get our hare-brained selves under control. Personally, I find these heartening perspectives better than the pessimistic ones. And I have found that presenting such views to less informed friends makes them more motivated to take action and limit their consumption rather than the doom and gloom perspective.
- perfunctory 8y ago
  > And I have found that presenting such views to less informed friends makes them more motivated to take action and limit their consumption rather than the doom and gloom perspective. I dunno. I for one is getting a little tired of all these optimistic endings. It almost sounds like - hey, nothing to worry about, the problem will solve itself. Renewables are getting cheaper and if you just skip one day a week of eating meat then everything will be just fine. And then you look at the PPM chart and it just keeps going up. Social science is saying that scaring people doesn't work and I don't understand why. Don't we have the loss aversion? [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion
diafygi 8y ago
Howdy! I work fighting climate change, and I guess it's that time again for a what-can-you-do-about-it post :) So what can you do about it? You can get a job fighting climate change! Solar, wind, batteries, and EVs are now competitive against fossil-based incumbents, so now the biggest issue is scaling them up. That means tons and tons of problem solving, which means great software and engineering jobs and startup opportunities! If you think about it, the switch to renewables means we need to deal with situations where the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing, yet still keep the lights on. That means you have to build in a ton of storage and load control and electrify as much as you can (transportation, heating, etc.). All that new infrastructure needs to have good communication and analysis, which means software! Something like half of the impact of the energy transition will be done through software optimizing the deployment and operation of clean energy assets. I've posted about this many times[1], so please check out my previous comments on links for finding climate impact work. It's mostly about (A) browsing sector-specific conferences and looking at the expo and speakers' companies for ones that interest you, and (B) showing up to energy meetups just to meet people working in the space. If you're in the bay area, I run a calendar of all the clean energy-related events (https://bayareaenergyevents.com https://bayareaenergyevents.com), so I encourage you to just start showing up :) My favorite climate change joke is, "They say we won't act until it's too late... Luckily, it's too late!" Why not turn the fatalism and anxiety you feel into a paycheck? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154
- lazyjones 8y ago
  > Why not turn the fatalism and anxiety you feel into a paycheck? I don't want to sound mean, but the only anxiety I am beginning to feel lately is that more and more people are turning to fighting a gas that all of us exhale, some of them fanatically and violently, and they seem to ultimately agree that we must wind down the economy to beat it. I don't want to lose everything that gave us wealth, progress, medical breakthroughs and freedom for the sole reason that some people are afraid of a warmer climate. So, what do I do about it?
  - diafygi 8y ago
no1youknowz 8y ago
So I have a really serious question. I'm not a denier/skeptic. I just like to look at things logically and pose questions. Over the next 50 years these 3 things will occur: 1) Only electric vehicles on the ground, air and water 2) All meat for consumption grown in the lab, no farm animals raised 3) No coal plants Won't this eliminate all major types of pollution? If at this point, the planet still keeps warming? What are "they" going to blame it on then? It's quite easy to see this is where technology is going. But yet I never hear anything about it. Just we have 10/12 years until we all die. Also please don't just down vote me. I'm interested in knowing if there are cycles in warming due to the earth or the sun. I have come across youtube videos and articles that we are in-line for another ice age. I just wonder, if we'll ever get to a peak warm, will it reverse and we'll start cooling rapidly?
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  You think the planet reaches equilibrium a day after we stop emitting? There's quite a bit of heat capacity at planetary scale. Current anthropogenic emissions may be causing melting of glaciers and warming for decades or hundreds of years to come. Chances are "they" will continue to accurately blame the 20th and 21st century emissions into the 22nd and 23rd.
  - no1youknowz 8y ago
    Actually no, that would be folly. But I do expect at some point the planet will self correct. I think that because I remember the scare of the ozone layer back in the 80s, early 90s. Now according this article [0], in 2060 it will be completely healed. Why can't it be said for climate change? I personally don't understand any negative connotations. I can only think it will be a positive outcome. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/05/ozone-layer-healing-after-aerosols-un-northern-hemisphere https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/05/ozone-la...
    - jeremyjh 8y ago
      The reason the ozone layer is healing is because "the scare" led to enactment of laws prohibiting the widespread usage of the chemicals that were destroying it. This is like saying Y2K was nothing but fear mongering.
mbruce 8y ago
We stink at it for a few reasons - some covered by the article - and some not. Primarily it is due to population in total and our habits of which generate Co2. Our houses, energy expenditure on cars, planes etc are valuable to us, and are not at all easy to change.e.g. Thing about houses designed for A/C with lots of glass. Lifecycle is 50 years. We are over optimistic about very large infrastructure change in wind / solar and despatchable energy replacing other sources and aren’t very practical. Did someone mention nuclear or is that verboten? It is also a distributed problem. If one country gets ‘ahead’ it incurs a cost penalty (unless you are one of the few with cheap hydro). What’s the incentive? Many intuitively believe in climate change but want someone else to pay (doesn’t work out). Who realistically can see widespread support to cut the standard of living? So, some problems are very hard and this is one of them. No real easy answer. This is why we stink at it. Until the pain is far more evident.
williesleg 8y ago
Climate change was invented by the left after global warming failed. Next its fresh water shortages. It's all about getting elected and jacking up taxes.
Abishek_Muthian 8y ago
Politicians, being decision makers having vested interest in denying climate change is the epitome of corruption, because unlike other corruption; wealth doesn't prevent themselves or their kin from getting affected in the long run.
Proven 8y ago
A bunch of nonsense. I stink at tackling climate change because I don't care about fake news. Climate change that can be economically effectively addressed does not exist. Until that changes please go ahead and fight it at your own expense.
fsloth 8y ago
I think the actual reason is that most of the countries hardest hit (due to concievable first order effects) have mostly very low GDP. Hence the incumbents have very little immediate financial incentive to pull their weight.
scarejunba 8y ago
> What’s wrong with us? Not us Democrats, Republicans, or Americans But really, Republicans, though. > Earth is warming mostly due to human activity > Republicans (Boomer/GenX/Millennial): 18/2x/36 > Democrats: 75 https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/14/many-republican-millennials-differ-with-older-party-members-on-climate-change-and-energy-issues/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/14/many-republ...
perfunctory 8y ago
"Enter global heating (a better word than “warming,” which carries misleading connotations of comfy and toasty)" That's it. I'm gonna call it "global heating" from now on.
Yetanfou 8y ago
One of the reasons people are bad at tackling something like the changing climate is that the subject has been turned into something closely resembling a religion and as such has gained adherents spreading the true faith and detractors denying it, with almost no sane discussion being possible between the two. This is a sad state of things as it leads to totally illogical actions on both sides. Combine this with the clear and present danger from commercial interests trying to gain from either keeping the status quo or from selling new and often largely unproven - or even proven ineffective - ways to 'fight climate change' and the stage was set for the current situation. This situation has occurred earlier in history, an example being the attitude towards nuclear power. While some point at the accidents in Three Miles Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima as examples of why nuclear power is the spawn of Satan and should be banished from this earth, others see those same accidents in the light of the stalled development of nuclear technology due to the actions of those who do everything to stall those developments leading to ancient reactors being kept on-line because their successors have been stalled or cancelled.
ykevinator 8y ago
Republicans in the u.s. are the biggest threat to the climate because they don't think there's a problem.

44 points by imartin2k 8y ago

Just watched this documentary by David Attenborough [1] the other day. It's unfortunate that still to this day, scientists and researches have to emphasize the phrase 'climate change'. It's sickening to know that rainforests are being bulldozed off by their hundreds of square kilometers every single day. And it's even more sickening that many think 'reforestation' is going to help this cause. Rainforests are an ecosystem with thousands of different plants and trees, which contribute to a healthy and flourishing environment. Thinking that you can replace this with a few different species is not the way to approach this problem. We really have to start looking at these issues from an individual point of view. We have to consider the fact that it might be our individual behavior that's going to inspire change in others. World's Elite has proven time and time again that they do not care for the planet, not unless there is big money involved. [1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-47988337 https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-47988337

kryogen1c 8y ago
You seem to be conflating two different issues. Eliminating plant and animal diversity is dangerous for various reasons, but has little to do with climate change. As to deforestation as a mechanism of CO2 removal vis a vis climate change, there are more trees now than there have ever been.
- skilled 8y ago
  Ignorance is bliss!
  - simplesleeper 8y ago
    reforestation has been ongoing at a massive scale for quite a while now - I drove on a motorway for days across Brazil, for example, and only saw forests of trees lined in perfect rows by the road.

vages 8y ago

Despite the misanthropic title, the article ends on a positive note: > Thanks to our cultural evolution, we have cities, houses, and indoor plumbing. As a result, to the benefit of our health, we learned to use toilets. A primate with such behavioral flexibility, capable of going against millennia of natural selection, is nearly miraculous, yet an everyday event. Take heart. An originally arboreal primate species capable of being toilet-trained should also be capable of becoming planet-trained. In Aesop’s tale, remember, the tortoise triumphs. Because the hare and the tortoise are both part of ourselves, they can only win or lose together, which makes it all the more important that we get our hare-brained selves under control. Personally, I find these heartening perspectives better than the pessimistic ones. And I have found that presenting such views to less informed friends makes them more motivated to take action and limit their consumption rather than the doom and gloom perspective.

perfunctory 8y ago
> And I have found that presenting such views to less informed friends makes them more motivated to take action and limit their consumption rather than the doom and gloom perspective. I dunno. I for one is getting a little tired of all these optimistic endings. It almost sounds like - hey, nothing to worry about, the problem will solve itself. Renewables are getting cheaper and if you just skip one day a week of eating meat then everything will be just fine. And then you look at the PPM chart and it just keeps going up. Social science is saying that scaring people doesn't work and I don't understand why. Don't we have the loss aversion? [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion

diafygi 8y ago

Howdy! I work fighting climate change, and I guess it's that time again for a what-can-you-do-about-it post :) So what can you do about it? You can get a job fighting climate change! Solar, wind, batteries, and EVs are now competitive against fossil-based incumbents, so now the biggest issue is scaling them up. That means tons and tons of problem solving, which means great software and engineering jobs and startup opportunities! If you think about it, the switch to renewables means we need to deal with situations where the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing, yet still keep the lights on. That means you have to build in a ton of storage and load control and electrify as much as you can (transportation, heating, etc.). All that new infrastructure needs to have good communication and analysis, which means software! Something like half of the impact of the energy transition will be done through software optimizing the deployment and operation of clean energy assets. I've posted about this many times[1], so please check out my previous comments on links for finding climate impact work. It's mostly about (A) browsing sector-specific conferences and looking at the expo and speakers' companies for ones that interest you, and (B) showing up to energy meetups just to meet people working in the space. If you're in the bay area, I run a calendar of all the clean energy-related events (https://bayareaenergyevents.com https://bayareaenergyevents.com), so I encourage you to just start showing up :) My favorite climate change joke is, "They say we won't act until it's too late... Luckily, it's too late!" Why not turn the fatalism and anxiety you feel into a paycheck? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154

lazyjones 8y ago
> Why not turn the fatalism and anxiety you feel into a paycheck? I don't want to sound mean, but the only anxiety I am beginning to feel lately is that more and more people are turning to fighting a gas that all of us exhale, some of them fanatically and violently, and they seem to ultimately agree that we must wind down the economy to beat it. I don't want to lose everything that gave us wealth, progress, medical breakthroughs and freedom for the sole reason that some people are afraid of a warmer climate. So, what do I do about it?
- diafygi 8y ago

no1youknowz 8y ago

So I have a really serious question. I'm not a denier/skeptic. I just like to look at things logically and pose questions. Over the next 50 years these 3 things will occur: 1) Only electric vehicles on the ground, air and water 2) All meat for consumption grown in the lab, no farm animals raised 3) No coal plants Won't this eliminate all major types of pollution? If at this point, the planet still keeps warming? What are "they" going to blame it on then? It's quite easy to see this is where technology is going. But yet I never hear anything about it. Just we have 10/12 years until we all die. Also please don't just down vote me. I'm interested in knowing if there are cycles in warming due to the earth or the sun. I have come across youtube videos and articles that we are in-line for another ice age. I just wonder, if we'll ever get to a peak warm, will it reverse and we'll start cooling rapidly?

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
You think the planet reaches equilibrium a day after we stop emitting? There's quite a bit of heat capacity at planetary scale. Current anthropogenic emissions may be causing melting of glaciers and warming for decades or hundreds of years to come. Chances are "they" will continue to accurately blame the 20th and 21st century emissions into the 22nd and 23rd.
- no1youknowz 8y ago
  Actually no, that would be folly. But I do expect at some point the planet will self correct. I think that because I remember the scare of the ozone layer back in the 80s, early 90s. Now according this article [0], in 2060 it will be completely healed. Why can't it be said for climate change? I personally don't understand any negative connotations. I can only think it will be a positive outcome. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/05/ozone-layer-healing-after-aerosols-un-northern-hemisphere https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/05/ozone-la...
  - jeremyjh 8y ago
    The reason the ozone layer is healing is because "the scare" led to enactment of laws prohibiting the widespread usage of the chemicals that were destroying it. This is like saying Y2K was nothing but fear mongering.

mbruce 8y ago

We stink at it for a few reasons - some covered by the article - and some not. Primarily it is due to population in total and our habits of which generate Co2. Our houses, energy expenditure on cars, planes etc are valuable to us, and are not at all easy to change.e.g. Thing about houses designed for A/C with lots of glass. Lifecycle is 50 years. We are over optimistic about very large infrastructure change in wind / solar and despatchable energy replacing other sources and aren’t very practical. Did someone mention nuclear or is that verboten? It is also a distributed problem. If one country gets ‘ahead’ it incurs a cost penalty (unless you are one of the few with cheap hydro). What’s the incentive? Many intuitively believe in climate change but want someone else to pay (doesn’t work out). Who realistically can see widespread support to cut the standard of living? So, some problems are very hard and this is one of them. No real easy answer. This is why we stink at it. Until the pain is far more evident.

williesleg 8y ago

Climate change was invented by the left after global warming failed. Next its fresh water shortages. It's all about getting elected and jacking up taxes.

Abishek_Muthian 8y ago

Politicians, being decision makers having vested interest in denying climate change is the epitome of corruption, because unlike other corruption; wealth doesn't prevent themselves or their kin from getting affected in the long run.

Proven 8y ago

A bunch of nonsense. I stink at tackling climate change because I don't care about fake news. Climate change that can be economically effectively addressed does not exist. Until that changes please go ahead and fight it at your own expense.

fsloth 8y ago

I think the actual reason is that most of the countries hardest hit (due to concievable first order effects) have mostly very low GDP. Hence the incumbents have very little immediate financial incentive to pull their weight.

scarejunba 8y ago

> What’s wrong with us? Not us Democrats, Republicans, or Americans But really, Republicans, though. > Earth is warming mostly due to human activity > Republicans (Boomer/GenX/Millennial): 18/2x/36 > Democrats: 75 https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/14/many-republican-millennials-differ-with-older-party-members-on-climate-change-and-energy-issues/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/14/many-republ...

perfunctory 8y ago

"Enter global heating (a better word than “warming,” which carries misleading connotations of comfy and toasty)" That's it. I'm gonna call it "global heating" from now on.

Yetanfou 8y ago

One of the reasons people are bad at tackling something like the changing climate is that the subject has been turned into something closely resembling a religion and as such has gained adherents spreading the true faith and detractors denying it, with almost no sane discussion being possible between the two. This is a sad state of things as it leads to totally illogical actions on both sides. Combine this with the clear and present danger from commercial interests trying to gain from either keeping the status quo or from selling new and often largely unproven - or even proven ineffective - ways to 'fight climate change' and the stage was set for the current situation. This situation has occurred earlier in history, an example being the attitude towards nuclear power. While some point at the accidents in Three Miles Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima as examples of why nuclear power is the spawn of Satan and should be banished from this earth, others see those same accidents in the light of the stalled development of nuclear technology due to the actions of those who do everything to stall those developments leading to ancient reactors being kept on-line because their successors have been stalled or cancelled.

ykevinator 8y ago

Republicans in the u.s. are the biggest threat to the climate because they don't think there's a problem.