6 ms·

I have a feeling this guilty plea is not actually a "guilty" plea, and more of "let's get it over with." The guy has always called the charges "bullshit" and w

by ccnafr 7y ago

I have a feeling this guilty plea is not actually a "guilty" plea, and more of "let's get it over with." The guy has always called the charges "bullshit" and was asking for donations to keep up with legal costs. This isn't how a legal system is supposed to work. You don't take a guilty plea because you run out of money.

Scoundreller 7y ago
But money can certainly help with the negotiating.
- ccnafr 7y ago
  All of this smells like a prosecutor wanting a big case hit so he can advance his career. All cyber-security firms said they never got hits for Kronos or UPAS-Kit. The first Kronos detections came after his arrest. Go figure that! How do you charge someone for developing malware that never infected anyone?
  - campuscodi 7y ago
    They had hits, but they said they never registered US victims. Kronos, in its early days, was apparently seen only in Europe.
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    That's simply not correct, kronos was well documented before his arrest. https://securityintelligence.com/the-father-of-zeus-kronos-malware-discovered/ https://securityintelligence.com/the-father-of-zeus-kronos-m... https://myonlinesecurity.co.uk/an-employee-has-been-terminated-malspam-with-malicious-macro-word-doc-delivers-unknown-malware/ https://myonlinesecurity.co.uk/an-employee-has-been-terminat... 2016 post referencing kronos with samples https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/2ba17c2fbdd4127d7a63951b307ec8f9c9a4144156ce5e185a96cf2c409ccacd/analysis/ https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/2ba17c2fbdd4127d7a63951b3... 2014 sample tagged as kronos https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/3bd4b8caf9ae975bd41dbee1f1719cf7be3efa4f52b8768aba30ba9a40569008/detection https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/3bd4b8caf9ae975bd41dbee1f... another 2014 kronos sample
ryanlol 7y ago
Marcus Hutchins has an extensively documented history of developing and selling malware for over half a decade https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/09/who-is-marcus-hutchins/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/09/who-is-marcus-hutchins/ It really doesn't seem very likely that the FBI fucked up here.
- ccnafr 7y ago
  Yeah. As a minor. Isn't everyone given a pass for crimes committed at that age? Why the indictment then?
  - ryanlopl 7y ago
    He was 23 when he was arrested in 2017, he certainly wasn't a minor when the events described in the indictment took place in 2014-2015.
    - ga-vu 7y ago
      June 1994 (age 24 years) According to his Wikipedia page.
asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
> I have a feeling this guilty plea is not actually a "guilty" plea, and more of "let's get it over with." On what basis did you form this opinion? Presumably more than just the say-so of the accused. > This isn't how a legal system is supposed to work. You don't take a guilty plea because you run out of money. But that's not how it works. You have a right to be represented by an attorney. That's why the state and federal governments maintain a system of talented-if-overworked public defenders.
- smaslennikov 7y ago
  Public defenders are far from sufficient in cases of above-minimal complexity. An interesting article on the subject: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/31/us/public-defender-case-loads.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/31/us/public-def...
- awalton 7y ago
  > That's why the state and federal governments maintain a system of talented-if-overworked public defenders. ...whose advice is usually "take the deal," because they're incredibly overworked and would rather get things over with, and they've long been jaded by the system. It smells a lot like the prosecutors did what they always do with trial penalties - dump a deluge of charges and say "look, we'll throw all of the rest of them away except one or two if you take the plea deal." Fighting the charges in these situations often requires a reckless disregard for money and time, even in the case when you're completely innocent, neither of which can be recouped even upon acquittal. This is such a common tactic that even John Oliver had to call out the bullshit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET_b78GSBUs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET_b78GSBUs
- tptacek 7y ago
  Hutchins was represented by a whole team of lawyers including Marcia Hofmann, whose name is on the plea agreement. He did not rely on a public defender.
tedunangst 7y ago
That seems like a loophole. You call the charges bullshit and ask for donations, and that proves you're innocent?

by ccnafr 7y ago

Scoundreller 7y ago

But money can certainly help with the negotiating.

ccnafr 7y ago
All of this smells like a prosecutor wanting a big case hit so he can advance his career. All cyber-security firms said they never got hits for Kronos or UPAS-Kit. The first Kronos detections came after his arrest. Go figure that! How do you charge someone for developing malware that never infected anyone?
- campuscodi 7y ago
  They had hits, but they said they never registered US victims. Kronos, in its early days, was apparently seen only in Europe.
- ryanlol 7y ago
  That's simply not correct, kronos was well documented before his arrest. https://securityintelligence.com/the-father-of-zeus-kronos-malware-discovered/ https://securityintelligence.com/the-father-of-zeus-kronos-m... https://myonlinesecurity.co.uk/an-employee-has-been-terminated-malspam-with-malicious-macro-word-doc-delivers-unknown-malware/ https://myonlinesecurity.co.uk/an-employee-has-been-terminat... 2016 post referencing kronos with samples https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/2ba17c2fbdd4127d7a63951b307ec8f9c9a4144156ce5e185a96cf2c409ccacd/analysis/ https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/2ba17c2fbdd4127d7a63951b3... 2014 sample tagged as kronos https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/3bd4b8caf9ae975bd41dbee1f1719cf7be3efa4f52b8768aba30ba9a40569008/detection https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/3bd4b8caf9ae975bd41dbee1f... another 2014 kronos sample

ryanlol 7y ago

Marcus Hutchins has an extensively documented history of developing and selling malware for over half a decade https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/09/who-is-marcus-hutchins/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/09/who-is-marcus-hutchins/ It really doesn't seem very likely that the FBI fucked up here.

ccnafr 7y ago
Yeah. As a minor. Isn't everyone given a pass for crimes committed at that age? Why the indictment then?
- ryanlopl 7y ago
  He was 23 when he was arrested in 2017, he certainly wasn't a minor when the events described in the indictment took place in 2014-2015.
  - ga-vu 7y ago
    June 1994 (age 24 years) According to his Wikipedia page.

asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago

> I have a feeling this guilty plea is not actually a "guilty" plea, and more of "let's get it over with." On what basis did you form this opinion? Presumably more than just the say-so of the accused. > This isn't how a legal system is supposed to work. You don't take a guilty plea because you run out of money. But that's not how it works. You have a right to be represented by an attorney. That's why the state and federal governments maintain a system of talented-if-overworked public defenders.

smaslennikov 7y ago
Public defenders are far from sufficient in cases of above-minimal complexity. An interesting article on the subject: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/31/us/public-defender-case-loads.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/31/us/public-def...
awalton 7y ago
> That's why the state and federal governments maintain a system of talented-if-overworked public defenders. ...whose advice is usually "take the deal," because they're incredibly overworked and would rather get things over with, and they've long been jaded by the system. It smells a lot like the prosecutors did what they always do with trial penalties - dump a deluge of charges and say "look, we'll throw all of the rest of them away except one or two if you take the plea deal." Fighting the charges in these situations often requires a reckless disregard for money and time, even in the case when you're completely innocent, neither of which can be recouped even upon acquittal. This is such a common tactic that even John Oliver had to call out the bullshit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET_b78GSBUs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET_b78GSBUs
tptacek 7y ago
Hutchins was represented by a whole team of lawyers including Marcia Hofmann, whose name is on the plea agreement. He did not rely on a public defender.

tedunangst 7y ago

That seems like a loophole. You call the charges bullshit and ask for donations, and that proves you're innocent?