7 ms·

Couldn't the web be controlled from a legal standpoint? What if people had to fear imprisonment for downloading classified documents? I'm not asking this rhetor

Couldn't the web be controlled from a legal standpoint? What if people had to fear imprisonment for downloading classified documents? I'm not asking this rhetorically; I'm hoping someone can point out why I'm incorrect.

gintas 16y ago
I don't think it's possible to control the internet when any sort of stronger encryption is available that prevents inspection of passing information by the routing nodes. Even then, you could use steganography to hide data. It would be very, very difficult to enforce this sort of legal restriction even if it were passed as a law.
etherael 16y ago
As the web stands currently, no. Look at repressive regimes such as China where dissidents still get unfiltered net access via VPN, or at the other end of the spectrum technical measures such as freenet that make the current situation look like a locked down paradise for authorities. The fundamental architecture could be changed to the point where it actually was controllable, for example if all packets had to be encrypted with a key that was provided to the sender by a centralised authority. This would make all the unencrypted traffic stand out like a sore thumb, and the encrypted traffic would be amenable to deep packet inspection and the like by the centralised authority. Banning encryption that does not use an escrow key would of course also be necessary, but this would also stand out like a sore thumb. To say the technical challenges of actually implementing the aforementioned approach are non trivial however is to put it mildly, not to mention the necessary political hurdles and the degree of power the centralised authority in question would need to have to practically pull such a plan off. We're not there by a long shot, and it appears that the majority of people who want us to get there do not have the intellectual capital to pull it off or indeed even come up with it, or indeed even understand the reason that they would need to come up with it. And if you're watching, you can't steal mine, I've patented it. ;)
- chrischen 16y ago
  It's true China cannot absolutely filter the web. However the majority of the people won't bother with VPN. China doesn't need to make dissident ideas absolutely contained to be effective. They just need to make it sufficiently hard for those ideas to spread.
  - etherael 16y ago
    As you point out yourself, that's hard, and only getting even harder.
    - chrischen 16y ago
      Everything gets harder as things change and you need to adapt. But I don't think China is having too much trouble adapting. Their tactics are working at shaping the population's minds. They may not be able to bend minds but they certainly can mold and guide it.
  - joe_the_user 16y ago
    It depends on how strongly the ideas resonate with the populace. The dangerous thing about containing dissident ideas is that when a society begins to function less well, the average person has greater incentive to learn about alternative ideas. So alternative ideas become readily available exactly when they seem most plausible. That's what has historically made authoritarian regimes fragile.
    - chrischen 16y ago
      It's not about the idea. It's the execution. China has the power to effectively mold the minds of the majority (like 80-90%), and the majority is all that's needed. The idea may be in the back of the minds of a lot of people but China can prevent them from coordinating, spreading, and developing those ideas.
      - vorg 16y ago

gintas 16y ago

I don't think it's possible to control the internet when any sort of stronger encryption is available that prevents inspection of passing information by the routing nodes. Even then, you could use steganography to hide data. It would be very, very difficult to enforce this sort of legal restriction even if it were passed as a law.

etherael 16y ago

As the web stands currently, no. Look at repressive regimes such as China where dissidents still get unfiltered net access via VPN, or at the other end of the spectrum technical measures such as freenet that make the current situation look like a locked down paradise for authorities. The fundamental architecture could be changed to the point where it actually was controllable, for example if all packets had to be encrypted with a key that was provided to the sender by a centralised authority. This would make all the unencrypted traffic stand out like a sore thumb, and the encrypted traffic would be amenable to deep packet inspection and the like by the centralised authority. Banning encryption that does not use an escrow key would of course also be necessary, but this would also stand out like a sore thumb. To say the technical challenges of actually implementing the aforementioned approach are non trivial however is to put it mildly, not to mention the necessary political hurdles and the degree of power the centralised authority in question would need to have to practically pull such a plan off. We're not there by a long shot, and it appears that the majority of people who want us to get there do not have the intellectual capital to pull it off or indeed even come up with it, or indeed even understand the reason that they would need to come up with it. And if you're watching, you can't steal mine, I've patented it. ;)

chrischen 16y ago
It's true China cannot absolutely filter the web. However the majority of the people won't bother with VPN. China doesn't need to make dissident ideas absolutely contained to be effective. They just need to make it sufficiently hard for those ideas to spread.
- etherael 16y ago
  As you point out yourself, that's hard, and only getting even harder.
  - chrischen 16y ago
    Everything gets harder as things change and you need to adapt. But I don't think China is having too much trouble adapting. Their tactics are working at shaping the population's minds. They may not be able to bend minds but they certainly can mold and guide it.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  It depends on how strongly the ideas resonate with the populace. The dangerous thing about containing dissident ideas is that when a society begins to function less well, the average person has greater incentive to learn about alternative ideas. So alternative ideas become readily available exactly when they seem most plausible. That's what has historically made authoritarian regimes fragile.
  - chrischen 16y ago
    It's not about the idea. It's the execution. China has the power to effectively mold the minds of the majority (like 80-90%), and the majority is all that's needed. The idea may be in the back of the minds of a lot of people but China can prevent them from coordinating, spreading, and developing those ideas.
    - vorg 16y ago