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Ask HN: How do you secure your Windows PC?
Like the similar thread about Mac[1], how do you secure your Windows PC?
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19681270
- benbristow 7y agoLeave Windows Defender/Firewall on as default and stay away from dodgy sites. Simple as that really.
- chrismeller 7y agoYep, same. Sometimes I’ll spin up a VM if I’m visiting a site that I’m suspect of or installing something random (even if it’s open source because I didn’t build these binaries and I haven’t audited the code), but as I used to say when I was doing desktop support “you don’t get malware by visiting CNN”.
- voltagex_ 7y ago>"you don't get malware by visiting CNN" Sometimes you do: https://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/malvertising-campaign-hitting-big-name-sites https://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/malvertising-campaign... Run an adblocker and up to date Windows 10. For anyone doing tech support over the Easter long weekend: https://decentsecurity.com/#/holiday-tasks/ https://decentsecurity.com/#/holiday-tasks/
- benbristow 7y agoWindows 10 is getting a new Sandbox feature so soon you’ll be able to use that instead
- rhn_mk1 7y ago> “you don’t get malware by visiting CNN” I have to barge in here and mention that doing totally reasonable things can result in getting malware installed on your systems. The most glaring case was the early Windows XP era, when it was enough to plug in the Ethernet cable during installation to get malware. I had to download the service pack and install it offline before plugging in the network. Today, I'd point out that ad networks' code is barely scrutinized, and they can hit unpatched vulnerabilities all right (sorry for not providing examples).
- acct1771 7y agoBe fair to yourself, they're intentionally not easy to track names of, etc. That's why it's so important to discuss & combat conceptually, not specifically.
- stinos 7y agoSounds simple, and it actually is, and this served me well for the past 20 years or so. I think. Did take me some 'practice' though, i.e. got bitten once only then knew better than to trust random executables. (Now if I really want that I just fire up a VM.) And back then there wasn't even Defender and now I still turn it off usually, sometimes it wrecks performance. On the other hand: for all I know my machines are all infected..
- pnutjam 7y agoEset has a nice online scanner (and the best 3rd party AV IMHO): https://www.eset.com/us/home/online-scanner/ https://www.eset.com/us/home/online-scanner/ Vipre has a nice offline scanner you can download. They used to update it daily, but I haven't used it in awhile since I mostly manage Linux now. https://www.vipreantivirus.com/vipre-rescue-virus-removal-tool.aspx https://www.vipreantivirus.com/vipre-rescue-virus-removal-to...
- neilsimp1 7y agoSame. I only use Windows in a VM now, but for years I ran Windows with no AV outside of whatever Windows set up on it's own. I only got two viruses in my life, and both times I was asking for it (downloading sketchy looking things off of Kazaa when that was a thing).
- jocoda 7y agoSimple. I assume that my PC is compromised and do not do any financial transactions on it. Still run dubious software in a VM but have a separate cheap netbook for banking/online purchases.
- ducttape12 7y agoI mostly stick to open source or well known commercial software, run Windows Defender, and I run uBlock Origin. I'm of the opinion the biggest risk of malware comes from rogue ads. I've only been hit with malware twice in the 25 years I've been using Windows. Once was me running a sketchy exe from a torrent site (that's on me) and once when I wasn't running an ad blocker.
- noja 7y agoHave a separate admin account. Use a Pi Hole.
- lousken 7y ago1) windows defender 2) ublock origin + privacy badger 3) using brain before i click on stuff 4) keepass for logins and veracrypt for private stuff
- baal80spam 7y agoI do the same, plus a (heavily) modified hosts file and simplewall (https://github.com/henrypp/simplewall https://github.com/henrypp/simplewall).
- mb_72 7y agoThis exactly my list (except with different software for 4)). Have been running Windows since Win3.1, and haven't 'caught' anything bad yet; worst was adware that somehow escaped detection inside installer for an old version of Delphi. Despite the fear-mongering, a lot of it comes down to common sense; don't click on links in dodgy emails, use adblockers for torrent sites etc. Most people get trapped by fairly basic stuff that more experienced computer / Windows users sidestep effortlessly, IMO and IME.
- stepbeek 7y agoNot sure about efficacy, but using a DNS sink like PiHole or pfblockerng gives me some piece of mind.
- nickjj 7y agoI've been using Windows boxes as my primary work / personal machine for over 20 years and I've only gotten a handful of viruses or malware and in the times I got them, I was going to very questionable sites back in the day. I disable Windows defender and all built in firewalls (my router has a firewall). I also don't run any anti-virus software. This is something I've done from the beginning. But I do run uBlock Origin in any browser I use. I also make sure to Win key + L (lock) my machine when I leave it unattended. From time to time I check the startup tab in task manager to make sure nothing looks suspicious and occasionally look at things like CPU / memory usage to look for anything out of place. So far it's been working out great. My current computer runs just as fast as it did 5 years ago when I built it and I haven't had to format a machine due to a virus in over a decade. I find most things like Windows defender and A / V tools to be more destructive than most malicious software. Often times these tools will crush I/O performance and make things run slower 100% of the time in the off chance you get a virus. I'd rather have things run super fast all of the time and take my chances. If I get even a hint of my machine being compromised I would format anyways.
- 32032141 7y ago" I've only gotten a handful of viruses or malware " This is a variation of the bad toupee fallacy. You won't notice viruses and malware, almost by definition.
- EliRivers 7y agoIf a virus or malware has no noticeable effect - does nothing that affects me - is it still a virus or malware?
- ansible 7y agoSo quietly exfiltrating your personal data is OK then?
- EliRivers 7y agoIf it has no noticeable effect - my life is completely identical - it's hard for me to see it as something negative. If something has absolutely zero effect on my life whatsoever - not even a single advert on my screen - calling it a virus or malware seems unwarranted. I suppose if my personal data was somehow used to damage someone else, that would warrant calling it malware.
- AstralStorm 7y agoI keep the silly Windows in a virtual machine or a few. Also standard hygiene applies such as opening files and attaching unknown media in a burner VM, not mixing banking, documents and entertainment, disabling autoplay and media icons if the previous options are inapplicable. Staying away from dodgy sites helps too. I generally do not have to keep the firewall or defender active as the routing (or lack thereof) is more effective. Also skip the automatic that pins everyone, such as remote device detection.
- moviuro 7y agoInstall updates when asked. Delaying updates is perhaps the worst thing for security. Scan files you download, submit them to virustotal if unsure. Sync data (e.g. [0] or whatever drive/dropbox/nextcloud) and keep snapshots [1]. Only way to ensure you don't lose anything Lying DNS server can also help for privacy and security, as well as a sinkhole for known-bad IPs [2,3,4] (should be deployed network-wide though) (I could use some help to test if my scripts run on WSL, as they're mostly POSIX). [0] https://syncthing.net https://syncthing.net [1] https://try.popho.be/securing-home.html https://try.popho.be/securing-home.html [2] https://pi-hole.net https://pi-hole.net [3] https://try.popho.be/byeads.html https://try.popho.be/byeads.html [4] https://gitlab.com/moviuro/moviuro.bin/blob/master/lie-to-me https://gitlab.com/moviuro/moviuro.bin/blob/master/lie-to-me
- black-alert 7y ago> How do you secure your Windows PC? By disconnecting it from the internet. Otherwise it is almost impossible to secure.
- artimaeis 7y agoI found this[1] a while back and have followed it on my Windows PC. I don't go so far as to install GlassWire, but the other suggestions it makes are reasonable for me. On the anecdotal side - keeping software up to date and being highly suspicious of all software seems to have kept me safe from issues for over a decade. [1] https://decentsecurity.com/#/securing-your-computer/ https://decentsecurity.com/#/securing-your-computer/
- hs86 7y agoLeave the Defender/Firewall untouched, don't install any additional "security" software and increase the UAC level to the highest one [0] that even prompts for changing important Windows settings. Obtain all 3rd party tools from the Microsoft Store or scoop [1] or chocolatey [2] (in that order) and not by downloading `foo.msi` from the first search result. This way you can update all your apps in a single step and don't have to rely on built-in updaters. [0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/identity-protection/user-account-control/how-user-account-control-works https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/identity-p... [1] https://scoop.sh/ https://scoop.sh/ (enable its additional repositories for GUI tools or all possible JDK flavors: https://github.com/lukesampson/scoop/wiki/Buckets https://github.com/lukesampson/scoop/wiki/Buckets) [2] https://chocolatey.org/ https://chocolatey.org/
- tsujamin 7y agoWindows has some additional Local Group Policy rules that are pretty killer in newer versions 1. Attack Surface Reduction Rules - Blocks some commonly seen dodgy techniques 2. Credential Guard - Moves LSASS to an isolated VM (break's VMWare etc though, see 5 if this is a dealbreaker) 3. Application Guard (Enterprise Mode) - Transparently virtualises and isolates Microsoft Edge (same caveat as above) 4. Microsoft Defender MAPS and Block at First Site 5. Run LSASS as a protected process 6. Process creation auditing with commandline 7. Powershell script block logging Most of this is backed into an windows image I run, but maybe I'm a bit paranoid ;) [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/windows-defender-exploit-guard/attack-surface-reduction-exploit-guard https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-pro... [2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/identity-protection/credential-guard/credential-guard https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/identity-p... [3] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/windows-defender-application-guard/wd-app-guard-overview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-pro... [4] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/windows-defender-antivirus/enable-cloud-protection-windows-defender-antivirus https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-pro... [5] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/security/credentials-protection-and-management/configuring-additional-lsa-protection#BKMK_HowToConfigure https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/security/cre... [6] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/identity/ad-ds/manage/component-updates/command-line-process-auditing https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/identity/ad-... [7] https://www.fireeye.com/blog/threat-research/2016/02/greater_visibilityt.html https://www.fireeye.com/blog/threat-research/2016/02/greater...
- manjana 7y agoMost malware is targeted at Windows machines. First step would be to switch OS to Linux or BSD. Then you could sandbox your browser, taking it a notch further. It is also bad practice to let browsers save your passwords, for Firefox at least, as these can be decrypted afaik. Like others write: also avoid dodgy sites as these may execute malicuous javascript (disable javascript if you need to visit such site, at the least). Be sure to aleays keep your software updated (this is a big one!).
- drexlspivey 7y agoI use this to monitor network activity https://www.glasswire.com/ https://www.glasswire.com/
- alkonaut 7y agoThis depends entirely on what you are protecting against. Being hacked (someone stealing data for example) or data loss, such as getting a ransom Trojan? I worry only about the latter. I don’t have secrets on my machine that I would be upset if someone got hold of. That makes protection easier. Use a good backup software with write only snapshots (not mirrors). Apply updates quickly. Don’t disable any built in protections and don’t add any third party ones.
- Delmania 7y agoIn addition to leaving Defender alone, I also recommend people install the free version of MalwareBytes and turn on Bitlocker.
- MagicPropmaker 7y agoI’d recommend the paid version of Malware Bytes
- Delmania 7y agoI use the paid version personally, but not many people are willing to spend the $70 on it.
- jmkni 7y agoI was really disappointed with MalwareBytes. It seemed great, so I paid for it, and every other week it would de-activate itself without warning. I would only notice this when explicitly checking the control panel, to find it had been turned off, and I needed to re-enter the license key. Maybe they've improved it? I should give it another shot!
- johnisgood 7y agoWhat exactly is meant here by secure? Windows in its default state contains spyware that you cannot disable or remove, or at the very least you cannot expect laymen to do. It is essentially covered in their terms of service and privacy statement. Then there is Intel ME, AMD PSP, etc. Short answer is that you simply do not secure your Windows PC. You may eliminate some of the spyware, but it does not make it secure. Can you make anything fully secure? Perhaps only secure enough, but then you need to specify what is meant by enough. In any case, for Windows 10: https://github.com/Nummer/Destroy-Windows-10-Spying https://github.com/Nummer/Destroy-Windows-10-Spying Note: it may break your system as some services are deeply embedded into it, and may require them to remain intact to function properly.
- tvanantwerp 7y agoI'd be careful running any tools to clean up Windows 10. While I haven't used this one before, I've used others that do basically the same thing. The telemetry features are so baked in to Windows 10 that running these tools can break Windows if you're not careful. And since every major update of Windows 10 changes so much with no regard to user preferences, even if your clean-up works today, it might break in the future. I try to avoid Windows 10 whenever possible.
- johnisgood 7y ago> running these tools can break Windows if you're not careful I think this definitely needs to be taken into consideration when running these sort of tools, I agree. > I try to avoid Windows 10 whenever possible. Good advice. I second it.
- zigzaggy 7y agoAbandoned project due to malware suspicious and other drama. Possibly a fork somewhere. But as you say why break your OS when you can switch over to something else?
- omginternets 7y agoWhich threat are we defending against, here?
- jjallen37 7y agoSecure? As long as nobody knows my password is h*2 I'm good.
- pnutjam 7y agoDownload the OpenSUSE Leap installer, write it to a USB drive, and install it. Your welcome. If you still need windows, put it in a vm using Xen and snapshot it to keep a known good copy.
- AnthonBerg 7y agoMy educated guess is that Windows will never be secure, because as I see it it is an un-designed un-principled heap of low-quality software. Therefore I keep Windows enclosed and strictly locked down in a virtual machine. If I need to do anything I feel is dubious I branch to a new timeline in a snapshot and roll back when I’m done. This also eliminates the hazard of Windows being unavailable for work due to the slow and uncontrollable update process; Just hop back to the last working snapshot. Update later. — Edit: To downvoters: Please note that this is a factual and sincere answer to the question “how do you secure your Windows PC?”. This is literally how I do that. In the comment, my opinion is clearly framed as my opinion, and the rest is a description of a technical workflow, its premise, and its implications. Therefore this is a better candidate for discussion than for downvoting if you disagree. In my opinion. I’m not attached to the fate of my comment, but I prefer the society we are building here to work that way. And that is, I believe, the premise.
- wayneftw 7y agoI think this is an outdated view of things. AFAIK, Windows is commonly regarded as more secure than Linux out of the box. Having used Windows for over 20 years and never gotten bit by any malware, I think the quality of Windows security has always been a bit overrated. Being the biggest target for malware has its advantages I guess.
- pnutjam 7y agoI'd love to see a source for windows being more secure? An out-of-the box install of windows is generally years out of date, Linux installs are usually only 6 months old.
- wayneftw 7y agoI said it's commonly regarded as being more secure. The source would be the comments on just about every thread anywhere it comes up. Looking at all the comments here - most people are saying that they don't do very much to secure Windows and that certainly mirrors my own experience.
- _zeta 7y ago- Don't disable Secure Boot, Windows Defender and Windows Firewall - If you really think updates are annoying shift the monthly updates by one month BUT always confirm the security updates - If you have a PRO license give a try to VBS [0] and Controlled Folder access [1] (spoiler: this will be a little annoying at the beginning but will became almost perfect with a well configured whitelist) - Also from the next (major) patch you should use Windows Sandbox [2] to run untrusted software(still a PRO feature) [0] https://www.microsoft.com/security/blog/2018/06/05/virtualization-based-security-vbs-memory-enclaves-data-protection-through-isolation/ https://www.microsoft.com/security/blog/2018/06/05/virtualiz... [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/windows-defender-exploit-guard/enable-controlled-folders-exploit-guard https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-pro... [2] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Windows-Kernel-Internals/Windows-Sandbox/ba-p/301849 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Windows-Kernel-Intern...
- ocdtrekkie 7y agoFor the most part default Windows 10 is fairly hard to break into if updated. Leave everything on and don't open new holes in it and its probably fine. I went to a demonstration on hacking into machines with Kali Linux and Metasploit and my Surface was on the Wi-Fi. I told him to go right ahead and let me know what he could do. He admitted defeat quickly. ;) For the most part, problems with computers are ones we create ourselves by shutting off security protections or adding services that open up holes in the security of a system. Sometimes its necessary of course, but you need to understand the risks you take when you do and mitigate them.
- cenourinhapt 7y agoI keep mine turned off.
- arboghast 7y agoMost things already mentioned in the comments here, plus: - Disabling Windows Script Host - Enabling 'Memory integrity' feature under Core Isolation. This however uses Hyper-V so it is enabled on my laptop but not on my workstation as Hyper-V only supports enhanced sessions with Ubuntu.
- Tangokat 7y ago- Update Windows and associated programs always - Leave Windows Defender alone (no hassle anymore) - Set UAC to lowest level (Too annoying to leave on high) - Use Firefox and always update - Use Umatrix and Ublock Origin - Use Bitlocker and Truecrypt/Veracrypt for especially sensitive stuff - Use Keepass for passwords - Never run any file you don't know what is outside of a VM
- 0x49d1 7y ago- Set UAC to lowest level (Too annoying to leave on high) I think it's just better to leave it in default position. - Use Umatrix and Ublock Origin Firefox already has tracking blocking and I've done tests to check: Firefox is way faster and stable without any extensions. Ublock Origin removes ad page blocks, but actually adds more resources to the program + slows page loads. Just try to turn it off and recheck.
- larrydag 7y agoBeing facetious but I gave up on Windows on my computers just over a decade ago due to this very reason. I was sick up constantly needing to upgrade every 2-4 years and having serious security issues. I went full Linux and I don't consider myself a free software zealot.
- theandrewbailey 7y agoKeep Windows Defender + Firewall on. Don't visit sketchy sites. Firefox + uMatrix to block all JS by default, and judiciously enable domains until things work to my satisfaction, or go elsewhere. Maybe open it in Chrome + uBlockOrigin if I think the hipsters who run the website don't know how to make a website. Pi-hole. Don't click ads. (hardly any remain by this point) Stay behind a router. Don't run/install every little piece of software that you come across. Install updates. Look for and verify hashes of downloads.[0] Examine CPU/RAM usage, startup processes, and services regularly. Use a password manager. (KeePassXC) [0] http://implbits.com/products/hashtab/ http://implbits.com/products/hashtab/
- kernelPan1c 7y agoFull-disk encryption. https://www.howtogeek.com/234826/how-to-enable-full-disk-encryption-on-windows-10/ https://www.howtogeek.com/234826/how-to-enable-full-disk-enc... Nothing more than speculation but...I suspect if you aren't using an open source OS, it's possible the NSA has a backdoor into the machine. The lack of open source is partly why the EternalBlue exploit existed across decades of windows releases.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- sumtotal 7y agoI too believe that for most people Windows 10 out-of-the-box is more secure than most Linux distros. Sure you can lock-down an Arch build but it's difficult (even for the technically inclined), time-consuming and needs constant monitoring and sometimes manual updating/reconfiguration. For Windows I do all of the things shared below (plus a few other tweaks) which are good enough a medium security risk level. The combination of all of them represent a significant barrier to non-state actors; -Upgrade to Windows Pro -Change computer name to something nondescript -Use a local login account (no email address) -Create a separate Admin and Standard account -Install favourite Anti-Virus and Firewall -Enable Exploit Protection (CFG, DEP, Mandatory ASLR, Bottom-up ASLR, High-entropy ASLR, SEHOP and Heap Integrity) -Enable Windows Defender Application Guard and Core isolation memory integrity -Install preferred VPN -Install trusted password manager -Crank UAC to the highest setting -Use an encrypted Virtual Drive for files -Disable AutoPlay for all devices -Activate all privacy toggles in Windows Settings -Reduce telemetry to the minimum allowed -Ensure cloud clipboard is disabled (!) -Defer feature updates but allow quality (security) updates -Receive updates directly from Microsoft and not third-parties -Run PowerShell script to remove any pre-installed, non-Microsoft, junkware -Enable BitLocker with triple factor authentication (TPM + Enhanced PIN + USB) -Activate BitLocker 256-bit encryption in XTS-AES mode -Disable BitLocker recovery key -Require Secure Boot and Additional Authentication at -Startup -Enable device lockout after X number of invalid login attempts -Disable NTLM and SMB -Disable debugging logs -Disable Sleep Mode -Disable Hide extensions for known file types -Enable Show hidden files, folders and drives -Harden web browser by disabling all unnecessary features -Install content blockers into web browser
- lcall 7y ago> I too believe that for most people Windows 10 out-of-the-box is more secure than most Linux distros. At the risk of being off-topic: Even if that were true (which I doubt but it has been better-debated elsewhere) ... 1) that list would be much-changing over time, and 2) it seems like Debian (or Devuan) stays on top of things reasonably well, especially if you add a firewall (I've liked the "arno-iptables-firewall" one though it doesn't seem to auto-start any more except on Devuan). Also, the length and changeability of that list illustrate why I use OpenBSD: it is more secure by default (as a key goal), and then when you make changes to the default config you can consider the security implications of each change. They put a lot of attention into auditing and making good design choices. Having said all that, many people simply won't like the feel of bsd or linux, and prefer a more commercial experience (for lack of a better term). (Edit: more of my thoughts on that, hopefully lightweight and skimmable, at http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587380.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587380.html ) But thanks for posting that list, as it could help someone. Edit: I also posted here some things I do on any system, for safer browsing: https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=13803908&cid=58464622 https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=13803908&cid=584646... (part of: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/19/04/19/2345227/incognito-mode-isnt-really-private-try-browser-compartmentalization https://yro.slashdot.org/story/19/04/19/2345227/incognito-mo... ).
- anotherevan 7y agoI use ShutUp10 to apply a lot of privacy and security settings to at least get a handle on things. Available at https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 or via Scoop or Chocolatey.