8 ms·

It's just a headline, but this title makes me sigh. For this thread, it's the title; for others today, it has been the "dose of realism" cynical first comment.

It's just a headline, but this title makes me sigh. For this thread, it's the title; for others today, it has been the "dose of realism" cynical first comment. It's probably just bad luck, but it feels like the first comment on every thread I've read today has been some variation of "here are the clouds to this silver lining." In this case, it's amazing that we give enough of a damn about each other to allocate the money in the first place. How many people say caring for the less fortunate should be a matter for charities but then don't donate a dime themselves? How many in an honest moment would reply, "that's tough, move to Houston." Yet some among us cares enough to try instead of just rolling their eyes at building below sea level. I'm happy to take more trying and failing if it's in exchange for "serves them right" hindsight or abject cynicism. Proceeding to read the article, over a decade the Army Corps of Engineers raised hundreds of miles of levees. If this were a thread about how the US can't complete big projects any more, that alone would be a ray of sunshine. There are real problems in the world, folks. There's no denying that. But when the people with the ability and the inclination to be doers spend their time wringing their hands or giving themselves over to "the constipation of bittersweet philosophy" that's when there's really a problem. Instead of worrying about the state of the world, spend an hour of your social media/fuck around time a day/week/month doing something for someone else. It'll do some actual good.

exabrial 8y ago
I do that, and I agree: I wish people would spend as much time complaining about other people as they do helping them. Yet, 40% of my paycheck is still taken against my will anyway.
hueving 8y ago
I would rather we spent tax dollars on fixable problems with much more social good per dollar. I'm tired of subsidizing flood insurance for idiots that keep building in areas that flood every 10 years. Subsidizing someone to have a nice home on a Miami beech is not "actual good". L
- perfmode 8y ago
  Take a hard look at the subsidies you are benefiting from. Be ready to give them up if you’re going to take the holier than thou route.
  - vpribish 8y ago
    Tu quoque much?
  - stickfigure 8y ago
    Maybe the whole country would be better if everyone was willing to give up these sorts of unsustainable subsidies? We (society as a whole) have an economic mechanism for protecting against risk - insurance. In places where insurance is too expensive or not available at all, perhaps we should consider letting nature take over.
    - smallnamespace 8y ago
      One persons's 'unsustainable subsidy' is another person's 'showing compassion for those who are less fortunate'. It's not like New Orleans is a particularly affluent area either, and people have lived there for a very long time. Take health insurance—one view could be that it forces people who are healthier to subsidize those who are less healthy. While some people are unhealthy due to factors outside of control, others are unhealthy because they do unhealthy things. Would you consider the latter an 'unsustainable subsidy'?
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - pm90 8y ago
        Wait what? You're comparing healthcare, which is a necessity, to choosing to live in a particular city. People that need healthcare don't have a choice, people _do_ have a choice to relocate to a more sustainable city though. I agree with you that NOLA isn't just the wealthy. But, that doesn't change the fact that its not a sustainable city to live in.
burgerzzz 8y ago
No kind deed goes unpunished, and it's starting to really leave a bitter taste in some people's mouths. The cynicism is real and deserved.
Spooky23 8y ago
I agree with you re the cynicism. I would say in these cases though that he levees are the problem. You have silted up channels because the river needs to flood, and the excessive levee system makes that problem more pronounced and contributes to the shrinking of the delta. That said, New Orleans shouldn’t die. But we’re making the problem worse for most stakeholders in other places.
lloydde 8y ago
* > Proceeding to read the article, over a decade the Army Corps of Engineers raised hundreds of miles of levees. If this were a thread about how the US can't complete big projects any more, that alone would be a ray of sunshine. Unfortunately even that sunshine requires applying sunscreen as it reminds of their calculations that don’t favor helping the most people. Still, even if the [Army Corp of Engineers] approach is designed to avoid picking winners and losers, it ends up doing so anyway, favoring wealthier neighborhoods. "It's also going to be [choosing] more valuable businesses," Kling says. "More valuable real estate." https://www.npr.org/2019/03/05/688786177/how-federal-disaster-money-favors-the-rich https://www.npr.org/2019/03/05/688786177/how-federal-disaste...
isoskeles 8y ago
Feigned moral indignation over 'cynicism' won't change the fact that real money was really wasted. > Instead of worrying about the state of the world, spend an hour of your social media/fuck around time a day/week/month doing something for someone else. It'll do some actual good. Also, speak for yourself. You don't know what people spend their time doing outside of writing comments on HN.
Tsubasachan 8y ago
Wait America deserves a pat on the back for providing basic infrastructure? What standards do we hold the US to, Bangladesh or the Netherlands?
navigatesol 8y ago
>Instead of worrying about the state of the world, spend an hour of your social media/fuck around time a day/week/month doing something for someone else. It'll do some actual good. Unfortunately, the current zeitgeist is one in which if you say the wrong thing, are misinterpreted, "mansplain" or simply disagree with the wrong people you're going to get railroaded, brigaded, reported to authorities, fired or blacklisted. In a world like that, where everyone is an opponent, who wants to "help their neighbour"?
phkahler 8y ago
Well I came to comment no this: >> “I think this work is necessary. We have to protect the population of New Orleans,” Not that I like either option, but I'd rather my tax dollars be spent on relocating these people than fighting an eternal war against the inevitable march of nature. Can I do anything personally about it? Not really. Certainly far less than any individual who lives there. But if my taxes are going to be used to help, then please help in a way that is more effective than doing the same stupid thing (building below sea level) that they've been doing for a hundred years.
nickthemagicman 8y ago
Nola has the highest port tonnage in the country. The impact on GDP is estimated in the hundreds of billions. There's also billions and billions of dollars of infrastructure here. Most goods that pass through to the midwest and rest of the country come through here. Without Nola, hundreds of billions of dollars of the economy will go away. Gas prices set a record after Katrina. 14 billion is a bargain to keep this city going. They're not keeping it around to be nice.

exabrial 8y ago

I do that, and I agree: I wish people would spend as much time complaining about other people as they do helping them. Yet, 40% of my paycheck is still taken against my will anyway.

hueving 8y ago

I would rather we spent tax dollars on fixable problems with much more social good per dollar. I'm tired of subsidizing flood insurance for idiots that keep building in areas that flood every 10 years. Subsidizing someone to have a nice home on a Miami beech is not "actual good". L

perfmode 8y ago
Take a hard look at the subsidies you are benefiting from. Be ready to give them up if you’re going to take the holier than thou route.
- vpribish 8y ago
  Tu quoque much?
- stickfigure 8y ago
  Maybe the whole country would be better if everyone was willing to give up these sorts of unsustainable subsidies? We (society as a whole) have an economic mechanism for protecting against risk - insurance. In places where insurance is too expensive or not available at all, perhaps we should consider letting nature take over.
  - smallnamespace 8y ago
    One persons's 'unsustainable subsidy' is another person's 'showing compassion for those who are less fortunate'. It's not like New Orleans is a particularly affluent area either, and people have lived there for a very long time. Take health insurance—one view could be that it forces people who are healthier to subsidize those who are less healthy. While some people are unhealthy due to factors outside of control, others are unhealthy because they do unhealthy things. Would you consider the latter an 'unsustainable subsidy'?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - pm90 8y ago
      Wait what? You're comparing healthcare, which is a necessity, to choosing to live in a particular city. People that need healthcare don't have a choice, people _do_ have a choice to relocate to a more sustainable city though. I agree with you that NOLA isn't just the wealthy. But, that doesn't change the fact that its not a sustainable city to live in.

burgerzzz 8y ago

No kind deed goes unpunished, and it's starting to really leave a bitter taste in some people's mouths. The cynicism is real and deserved.

Spooky23 8y ago

I agree with you re the cynicism. I would say in these cases though that he levees are the problem. You have silted up channels because the river needs to flood, and the excessive levee system makes that problem more pronounced and contributes to the shrinking of the delta. That said, New Orleans shouldn’t die. But we’re making the problem worse for most stakeholders in other places.

lloydde 8y ago

* > Proceeding to read the article, over a decade the Army Corps of Engineers raised hundreds of miles of levees. If this were a thread about how the US can't complete big projects any more, that alone would be a ray of sunshine. Unfortunately even that sunshine requires applying sunscreen as it reminds of their calculations that don’t favor helping the most people. Still, even if the [Army Corp of Engineers] approach is designed to avoid picking winners and losers, it ends up doing so anyway, favoring wealthier neighborhoods. "It's also going to be [choosing] more valuable businesses," Kling says. "More valuable real estate." https://www.npr.org/2019/03/05/688786177/how-federal-disaster-money-favors-the-rich https://www.npr.org/2019/03/05/688786177/how-federal-disaste...

isoskeles 8y ago

Feigned moral indignation over 'cynicism' won't change the fact that real money was really wasted. > Instead of worrying about the state of the world, spend an hour of your social media/fuck around time a day/week/month doing something for someone else. It'll do some actual good. Also, speak for yourself. You don't know what people spend their time doing outside of writing comments on HN.

Tsubasachan 8y ago

Wait America deserves a pat on the back for providing basic infrastructure? What standards do we hold the US to, Bangladesh or the Netherlands?

navigatesol 8y ago

>Instead of worrying about the state of the world, spend an hour of your social media/fuck around time a day/week/month doing something for someone else. It'll do some actual good. Unfortunately, the current zeitgeist is one in which if you say the wrong thing, are misinterpreted, "mansplain" or simply disagree with the wrong people you're going to get railroaded, brigaded, reported to authorities, fired or blacklisted. In a world like that, where everyone is an opponent, who wants to "help their neighbour"?

phkahler 8y ago

Well I came to comment no this: >> “I think this work is necessary. We have to protect the population of New Orleans,” Not that I like either option, but I'd rather my tax dollars be spent on relocating these people than fighting an eternal war against the inevitable march of nature. Can I do anything personally about it? Not really. Certainly far less than any individual who lives there. But if my taxes are going to be used to help, then please help in a way that is more effective than doing the same stupid thing (building below sea level) that they've been doing for a hundred years.

nickthemagicman 8y ago

Nola has the highest port tonnage in the country. The impact on GDP is estimated in the hundreds of billions. There's also billions and billions of dollars of infrastructure here. Most goods that pass through to the midwest and rest of the country come through here. Without Nola, hundreds of billions of dollars of the economy will go away. Gas prices set a record after Katrina. 14 billion is a bargain to keep this city going. They're not keeping it around to be nice.