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You are correct. The reverse is true too, why should contribute data to their maps service for free? I've done lot of work to add and correct roads, update busi

You are correct. The reverse is true too, why should contribute data to their maps service for free? I've done lot of work to add and correct roads, update business info and addresses in my area. If they want to fill the map with ads they have that right - but when they drive me (and people like me) away, their product will suffer.

openbasic 7y ago
Why didn't you contribute to OpenStreetMap?
- twothamendment 7y ago
  It has been years since I gave them a try. Their interface was horrible, but this is a good reason to try them again.
  - openbasic 7y ago
    Almost all free and open-source alternative have terrible UIs and crappy UX. And some have shitty content too. However, that content is done by volunteers just like you, and if you refuse to contribute because something puts you off, then the project dies. Imagine people with the same mindset as you: Oh, I don't bother contributing my design skills because the content sucks. And you don't contribute because design sucks. In the end, no one contributes and the project, as a whole, suffers. But if the project suffers, you and everyone else, lose to corporate offerings like Google. And that is fine, if you like that. But don't expect them to respect you. I hate to say this, but change has to come from within, not from laws, market forces or anything else. So, if you want LIBRE maps, and you really care about that, just go on and do it. Gather people, make noise and work hard. There's thousands of highly successful projects to get inspired by.
  - Vinnl 7y ago
    Regardless of what the sibling comment says, the editing UX is really good now. Their editor has a beautiful walkthrough and easy-to-use tools, at least on desktop: https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit
    - londons_explore 7y ago
      But is lacking pretty badly on mobile... Exactly the device people have with them when out in the real world...
      - Vinnl 7y ago
        True, I think one of the things Google Maps does very cleverly is making it really easy for users to suggest corrections, often just a single tap away. That said, OSMand has been making great strides usability-wise, and though it's still pretty lacking, hopefully it'll get there some day too.
        mikekchar 7y ago
        I'll be honest, I actually prefer OSMand to some other navigation apps. It may be that I'm used to it, but I find it works really well. I think my only complaint is that they use an arrow to show where they think you should go and a kind of weird, hard to see shading to show where the phone is pointing. It confuses me each time until I remember how it works.
      - purple_turtle 7y ago
        There is StreetComplete (application asking simple questions and making possible to edit without any OpenStreetMap specific knowledge)
- londons_explore 7y ago
  OpenStreetMap's leadership isn't bold enough to ever become the leading map provider. I don't want to contribute (for free) unless I think one day my work will impact millions of people. In what way aren't they bold enough? Their license is too restrictive for many commercial uses, driving big businesses (apple, Google, Microsoft) and their users away. They don't use crowdsourced data. You're never going to be able to build real-time traffic maps by manual means.. They need to make a platform to anonymously share user data so other volunteers can write automated code to turn it into real-time map features. Likewise, they might not have the resources for street view, but I bet a few million people submitting their photo library would get a photograph of a substantial number of buildings... Then it's just about code to sort, classify, tag, and arrange the images to be useful.
  - Doctor_Fegg 7y ago
    Apple and Microsoft use OSM data. So do Facebook and Garmin and countless others. OSM already impacts the lives of millions of people. Indeed, it genuinely saves lives through its humanitarian work, and has been doing so since the Haiti earthquake. What you appear to be saying is that it doesn’t provide motorist-centric features like “real-time traffic maps”. As someone who thinks the world would be a whole bunch better if there were fewer cars, I’m good with that.
  - purple_turtle 7y ago
    > You're never going to be able to build real-time traffic maps by manual means OpenStreetMap is not trying to make this specific product.
tokyodude 7y ago
I get the use of an amazing map service for which I pay them with my data. I even contribute fixes, reviews, and photos. I'm pretty happy with that price. I don't give them anything for free. They pay me in service. I actually want the ads too although I want them 100x better than they are and I'm sure Google like Amazon will fail for a while at curating the fake stuff. In an ideal world they'd have inventory and menus of every store so I could search for "pizza with avocados open now" or "1/4inch wrench" and it could tell me exactly where I can get them right now.
- londons_explore 7y ago
  >. "pizza with avocados open now" or "1/4inch wrench" and it could tell me exactly where I can get them right now. Answering queries like that has so much revenue potential. Possibly even more than the rest of Google put together. You bet they're trying to get there and have been for years. The reality is it's super hard to collect that data. They've tried getting shops to upload info about what they sell (the Google Shopping manifest files). They've tried putting Bluetooth trackers in every store (they mailed them out to all big businesses in 2014 and said 'stick one of these in every department of your shop') to track who goes there to know what store might have what products. They've tried putting their own staff in the stores (Google Shopping Express, and the Chromebox staff in electronics stores). None of it has worked, but they'll keep trying.
alasdair_ 7y ago
I’d strongly recommended putting future efforts into Open Streetmap instead - they have a fantastic set of data and tools and are usually (in my experience) more accurate and updated more quickly than Google.
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  I wish more people would do this, but sometimes it's a tough sell. I once tried to encourage a bunch of people who were banging their heads bloody trying to contribute to Facebook's places database to switch to editing OpenStreetMap instead. Most didn't want to switch -- they were convinced that their miserable experience improving Facebook was more impactful because it was a more popular product that they knew they used. I with OSM would come out with a consumer-focused map product. I think that would go a long way towards attracting more contributors, since most people get started to scratch an itch in a product they use.
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    OSM is used underlying a lot of commercial apps and services. Most people don't realise that though, so they think their edits correcting roads will only get seen by a handful of open source geeks.
    - alasdair_ 7y ago
      Agreed. For example Pokemon GO uses it - which is why there was a large influx of new users, prompting the following guidelines page: https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2016/12/30/tips-pokemon-go/ https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2016/12/30/tips-pokemon-go/
  - trystero 7y ago
    MAPS.ME (https://maps.me/ https://maps.me/) is the closest we have to a "consumer-focused map product" in the OpenStretMap ecosystem. Try it!
- mailslot 7y ago
  Open Streetmap doesn’t build laser scanning drones, or fleets of connected 360 camera vehicles, or the tech and infrastructure to do the mapping. SOMEONE has to build all of that. It can’t be free. If it’s govt funded, then there WILL be corruption, scams, and it’ll be run as well as the DMV.

openbasic 7y ago

Why didn't you contribute to OpenStreetMap?

twothamendment 7y ago
It has been years since I gave them a try. Their interface was horrible, but this is a good reason to try them again.
- openbasic 7y ago
  Almost all free and open-source alternative have terrible UIs and crappy UX. And some have shitty content too. However, that content is done by volunteers just like you, and if you refuse to contribute because something puts you off, then the project dies. Imagine people with the same mindset as you: Oh, I don't bother contributing my design skills because the content sucks. And you don't contribute because design sucks. In the end, no one contributes and the project, as a whole, suffers. But if the project suffers, you and everyone else, lose to corporate offerings like Google. And that is fine, if you like that. But don't expect them to respect you. I hate to say this, but change has to come from within, not from laws, market forces or anything else. So, if you want LIBRE maps, and you really care about that, just go on and do it. Gather people, make noise and work hard. There's thousands of highly successful projects to get inspired by.
- Vinnl 7y ago
  Regardless of what the sibling comment says, the editing UX is really good now. Their editor has a beautiful walkthrough and easy-to-use tools, at least on desktop: https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    But is lacking pretty badly on mobile... Exactly the device people have with them when out in the real world...
    - Vinnl 7y ago
      True, I think one of the things Google Maps does very cleverly is making it really easy for users to suggest corrections, often just a single tap away. That said, OSMand has been making great strides usability-wise, and though it's still pretty lacking, hopefully it'll get there some day too.
      - mikekchar 7y ago
        I'll be honest, I actually prefer OSMand to some other navigation apps. It may be that I'm used to it, but I find it works really well. I think my only complaint is that they use an arrow to show where they think you should go and a kind of weird, hard to see shading to show where the phone is pointing. It confuses me each time until I remember how it works.
    - purple_turtle 7y ago
      There is StreetComplete (application asking simple questions and making possible to edit without any OpenStreetMap specific knowledge)
londons_explore 7y ago
OpenStreetMap's leadership isn't bold enough to ever become the leading map provider. I don't want to contribute (for free) unless I think one day my work will impact millions of people. In what way aren't they bold enough? Their license is too restrictive for many commercial uses, driving big businesses (apple, Google, Microsoft) and their users away. They don't use crowdsourced data. You're never going to be able to build real-time traffic maps by manual means.. They need to make a platform to anonymously share user data so other volunteers can write automated code to turn it into real-time map features. Likewise, they might not have the resources for street view, but I bet a few million people submitting their photo library would get a photograph of a substantial number of buildings... Then it's just about code to sort, classify, tag, and arrange the images to be useful.
- Doctor_Fegg 7y ago
  Apple and Microsoft use OSM data. So do Facebook and Garmin and countless others. OSM already impacts the lives of millions of people. Indeed, it genuinely saves lives through its humanitarian work, and has been doing so since the Haiti earthquake. What you appear to be saying is that it doesn’t provide motorist-centric features like “real-time traffic maps”. As someone who thinks the world would be a whole bunch better if there were fewer cars, I’m good with that.
- purple_turtle 7y ago
  > You're never going to be able to build real-time traffic maps by manual means OpenStreetMap is not trying to make this specific product.

tokyodude 7y ago

I get the use of an amazing map service for which I pay them with my data. I even contribute fixes, reviews, and photos. I'm pretty happy with that price. I don't give them anything for free. They pay me in service. I actually want the ads too although I want them 100x better than they are and I'm sure Google like Amazon will fail for a while at curating the fake stuff. In an ideal world they'd have inventory and menus of every store so I could search for "pizza with avocados open now" or "1/4inch wrench" and it could tell me exactly where I can get them right now.

londons_explore 7y ago
>. "pizza with avocados open now" or "1/4inch wrench" and it could tell me exactly where I can get them right now. Answering queries like that has so much revenue potential. Possibly even more than the rest of Google put together. You bet they're trying to get there and have been for years. The reality is it's super hard to collect that data. They've tried getting shops to upload info about what they sell (the Google Shopping manifest files). They've tried putting Bluetooth trackers in every store (they mailed them out to all big businesses in 2014 and said 'stick one of these in every department of your shop') to track who goes there to know what store might have what products. They've tried putting their own staff in the stores (Google Shopping Express, and the Chromebox staff in electronics stores). None of it has worked, but they'll keep trying.

alasdair_ 7y ago

I’d strongly recommended putting future efforts into Open Streetmap instead - they have a fantastic set of data and tools and are usually (in my experience) more accurate and updated more quickly than Google.

CharlesColeman 7y ago
I wish more people would do this, but sometimes it's a tough sell. I once tried to encourage a bunch of people who were banging their heads bloody trying to contribute to Facebook's places database to switch to editing OpenStreetMap instead. Most didn't want to switch -- they were convinced that their miserable experience improving Facebook was more impactful because it was a more popular product that they knew they used. I with OSM would come out with a consumer-focused map product. I think that would go a long way towards attracting more contributors, since most people get started to scratch an itch in a product they use.
- londons_explore 7y ago
  OSM is used underlying a lot of commercial apps and services. Most people don't realise that though, so they think their edits correcting roads will only get seen by a handful of open source geeks.
  - alasdair_ 7y ago
    Agreed. For example Pokemon GO uses it - which is why there was a large influx of new users, prompting the following guidelines page: https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2016/12/30/tips-pokemon-go/ https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2016/12/30/tips-pokemon-go/
- trystero 7y ago
  MAPS.ME (https://maps.me/ https://maps.me/) is the closest we have to a "consumer-focused map product" in the OpenStretMap ecosystem. Try it!
mailslot 7y ago
Open Streetmap doesn’t build laser scanning drones, or fleets of connected 360 camera vehicles, or the tech and infrastructure to do the mapping. SOMEONE has to build all of that. It can’t be free. If it’s govt funded, then there WILL be corruption, scams, and it’ll be run as well as the DMV.