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Her Facebook life looked perfect. How social media masks mental illness (2015)
- umvi 8y agoHow social media masks mental illness? More like how people mask mental illness. It's scary how many people are seething tempests of confused emotion under the hood yet can put on a convincing facade that they are perfectly normal. Just last week one of my co-workers who I've known for years and seemed completely normal on the outside disappeared one day to attempt a Nice-style terrorist attack with a U-haul truck (the FBI nabbed him before anyone was killed).
- webwielder2 8y agoThat kind of thing happens often in your circle, does it?
- monetus 8y agoThe implication and offensiveness of that question actually stunned me. Please don't troll.
- kazagistar 8y agoGenerous reading of the comment is sarcastic scepticism of claims and basically calling the parent a liar, but even in this case it adds little substance to the discussion.
- dllthomas 8y agoI think the generous reading criticizes the generalization from one extreme anecdote to "scary how many" (emphasis mine).
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- tom_ 8y agoI assume it is a comment on the turn of phrase "It's scary how many", suggesting that perhaps this is a phenomenon that the poster has had repeated experience with. (I'm not sure this is a valid criticism, as the comment comes first and the anecdote second, suggesting that the anecode is there mainly for backup.)
- TallGuyShort 8y agoCan't reply to webwielder's comment anymore, but your anecdote is not isolated. How cliche is the response to a mass killing, "we had no idea he / she was capable of something like this."
- coldtea 8y agoWell, if they had, they would have put those persons under close surveillance or put them away earlier. So, obviously it's the one's that people "have no idea" that do the acts. That's probably some kind of logical bias with a name and all ("survivorship bias" perhaps: you have to "survive" the scrutiny people get when they appear capable of a horrendous act, to be able to carry such an act out).
- watwut 8y agoQuite a few of them had history of trouble if you ask those who knew them closely. Legal troubles, conflicts in school, aggression toward acquitances or/and undiagnized but visible mental health problems. Not all, but way more then obe would expect based on cliché. People who say that iften base it basically on killers ability to respond to "hello" with smile and "hello", but did not spent time with them to know their opinions or troubles.
- eljimmy 8y agoI think a lot of people, me included, have quite a high barrier to things they're willing to discuss or reveal to co-workers regarding their personal life.
- umvi 8y agoThis is probably the main issue. People have a "public face" and a "private face". Facebook is primarily a public face medium. Coworker relationships are (for the most part) public face interactions. The only people capable of seeing the private face (and thus potential red flags) are close family members and trusted friends.
- libraryatnight 8y agoco-workers are in many ways competition, revealing certain things to them can be bad for your career. And I'd bet that most people hiding things aren't murderous, just struggling.
- glenneroo 8y agoI don't know where you work, but I have never held a job in ~25 years where I considered any of my coworkers as any sort of competition, and actually quite the contrary, either camaraderie or at the worst, a lack of interest due to e.g. no common interests. I have the feeling that my coworkers always felt the same... perhaps I should ask around.
- libraryatnight 8y agoI've rarely met people that let it hurt the camaraderie of the team (I have met them, rather cut throat people, but not often), but when there's three of us in a role and one spot we all want opens up - we're absolutely competing for it.
- byproxy 8y agoI think a lot of people, (probably) me included, have quite a high barrier to things they're willing to discuss or reveal to people they've paid to discuss and reveal these things to.
- eeZah7Ux 8y ago> How social media masks mental illness? ...by strongly encouraging people to build and maintain a facade and identify with it.
- filoleg 8y agoYou pretty much described what living in a society does, nothing specific to social media.
- keepmesmall 8y agoThe societal facade without computers at least requires a semblance of common sense, good manners and physical health.
- mtw 8y agoTo be honest, there's no reason to portray an authentic lifestyle on Facebook. Because the more accurate or authentic you share on Facebook, the more likely they cut/data mine/analyze it to the point where they (and also everyone else on Facebook) might know about your life than you do - with predictive AI, that's worth a lot of thousands dollars of ad dollars. I don't have any mental illness but I do a deliberate effort to portray something else on Facebook and Twitter. You can't share anything private. Who knows, border agents, customs or criminals might use it against you in the future.
- b_tterc_p 8y agoWhy wouldn’t you just not use it, if that is your concern?
- t1amat 8y agoI see this argument a lot. For myself anyhow, it's because all of my friends and family use it to share photos and memories, and I am able to stay connected to people who I no longer have the same amount of time to stay connected to as I used to. There are certainly fantastic parts about Facebook and other social networks, but that doesn't mean care should not be applied to how they are used.
- mtw 8y agoIt's because everyone uses it, so it's highly suspicious if you don't use it. Also if you don't use it, it leaves open the door for others to define your digital identity. Someone could open a profile with my first name and last name and share pictures that are meant to debase, defame or something else. At least if I share something, I can push something that I want and define myself what is my digital identity. Plus the other which is being able to be contacted by remote family or other high school contacts etc.
- b_tterc_p 8y agoBut you can just have a profile and not post anything... surely that’s better than posting fake content?
- strikelaserclaw 8y agoSocial media is a slow acting poison. It's extensive damaging effects will only be felt in 10-20 years. For the most part, it amplifies all the negative traits of humanity, twitter encourages ad hominem style debates and substanceless statements from all strata of soceity. Instagram/FB takes the need for human validation and the need to keep pretenses among our peers to a global scale. The next generation will be much more comfortable behind a screen where they can maintain an illusory persona than in real life. This is not taking into accounts the addictive nature of social media in general and how they employ research scientists to work on making their products more addictive.
- RandallBrown 8y agoIt also lets you stay connected to people in ways that were impossible before. Chance meetings can become longtime friendships. Great memories that would have faded away no longer have to. For me, social media has mostly improved my life.
- Karunamon 8y agoThe degree with which people compare social media to drugs (with all the baggage that entails) fucking astounds me sometimes. I would fully expect a serious reply to a comment like yours to be "that's just because you're addicted". It's a fad in some circles to hate on social media. And a particularly tiresome one, since it's doing nothing more than highlighting the pathological ways humans have always behaved, even in its absence. Availability heuristic.
- strikelaserclaw 8y agoHumans have always fought in wars and killed one another but why are modern weapons so much more dangerous? Technology has the potential to enable the dark aspects of humanity to be more destructive than ever. Make no mistake, the HN crowd is not your average person, how social media applies to you does not reflect how it will apply to the majority in the world.
- variable11 8y agoFacebook as a company does terrible things constantly, but this is not one of them.
- daenz 8y agoThe article mentions social stigma to showing that you're unhappy, as if the stigma is wrong. To me, the stigma is natural behavior. Most people don't want to be around people who are deeply depressed. It takes a lot of energy to counteract that. In my opinion, it can be contagious like happiness can be contagious. This is not to say that I don't think depressed people need help and support though. I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't understand what it would look like if outwardly showing your depression wasn't stigmatized. The only alternative I can come up with is that people would have to be totally apathetic to your happiness or your sadness.
- PaulHoule 8y agoI think also there are people who will take advantage if you show any form of weakness. Thus people have a good reason to not come clean about their feelings.
- tachyonbeam 8y agoHaving been depressed, I think the main fear people have is of pushing people away. If you're not "fun", people won't want to spend time with you. Your friends will support you for a bit, but they have limited patience too. Comforting someone who's feeling down takes energy, and you know very well that there's a limit to how much of that you can ask other people to do for you. There's some kind of balance to be had. I find that I can express my sadness, but I have to be mindful that when I hang out with friends, even when I'm feeling down, I don't make it all about me. I have to still try to be a good friend and listen, etc. Avoid being someone who's emotionally draining to be around. Friendship is an exchange.
- asveikau 8y agoThe problem is that what you describe as "natural" stigma reenforces the problem, as people feel stigmatized and rejected and go deeper in their isolation and problems. I think part of the solution is actually for people who express your opinion to get over themselves, and realize for example how you just said happiness can be contagious in a similar way, so why not decide to be a contagion for good rather than dismiss someone as a contagion for bad. That won't fix your friends' problems totally but it goes further than people realize.
- menacingly 8y agoThis article feels misguided because it seems to start from the assumption that your social media presence is supposed to be a whole representation of your life. It's like saying James Bond movies fail because they don't show him going to the bathroom. They're not failing, it just isn't their intent. If you're contemplating suicide, perhaps your distant aunts and people you last saw in high school are not the appropriate lifeline.
- pixl97 8y agoRight, how many hours a day are people exposed to james bond movies versus exposure to social media?
- hjk05 8y agoIt’s sad how often social media has to take the blame for social iinteractions in general. Yes alcoholics, drugadicts, manically depressiv and terrorists all Seem normal to passive observere and sometimes even to passive friends. That has nothing to do with facebook, Instagram, snapchat or any other social media platform.
- wiradikusuma 8y agoI feel sorry for her and condolence for her family. BUt, at least in my circle, there are some people who do the total opposite. That is, they keeeeep complaining about their life/boss/politics/etc but actually they're a nice person and totally normal in real life.
- motohagiography 8y agoA useful analogy is to think about social media in terms of steroid use in cycling. An athlete on the Tour de France knows most winners cheat and the instance of cheaters in the standings clusters densely toward the top. To even qualify for the game with cheaters, you need to either be a standard deviation better than they are without their cheat, or compromise and also cheat, which in turn legitimizes their tactics. Social media exacerbates nascent mental illness by creating this same double bind for young people, where to "succeed," in life by getting access to cliques and networks, school placements, job opportunities, and investment opportunities, you need to "play the game," which today means to fabricate an image of performative conventional success and the perception you are a viable centre of attention. They know it's wrong, everyone else knows it's probably wrong, but the whole exercise is a temporary suspension of disbelief in exchange for lottery style rewards, provided by sponsors. Good news on both fronts is you can enjoy riding bicycles or any other sport, and indeed life, without the often horrific and spiritually hollow compromises of elite competition, which social media seems to approximate. The greatest irony is that it is in more humble and private pursuits where most of the real stories of courage, dignity, and personal triumph that people only fake in performances on social media can truly be found.
- kacamak 8y agoYou can just not participate. You are making it sound as a do or die thing. Facebook does not help you in getting any sucess at all.
- izzydata 8y agoThis is just circumstantial evidence, but from my personal experience of just not participating in "playing the game" it would always result in losing friends and relationships. This was before the time of Facebook and other modern social media, but there are all kinds of social games you are expected to participate in if you want to be part of things. Perhaps I won the game by not participating and never being stressed about these things, but who knows what things would have been like if I didn't close so many doors by not playing along. I imagine today you would be more isolated than ever before if you decide to not participate. This might not matter much in work life, but for kids in school it is huge.
- distant_hat 8y agoWhen people don't have a perfect "Facebook life" they are castigated for oversharing and washing dirty linen in public. On a public medium like Facebook, you keep things perfect because everyone from your boss to your juniors and your grandmother is reading.
- tachyonbeam 8y agoThat's true. I started a new job where all my coworkers (including my boss) added me on Facebook. I recently realized that I'm now censoring myself more than I was before. It's a question of status: I don't want to broadcast to my coworkers that I sometimes go to electronic music events. I know they would judge me negatively. My girlfriend recently broke up with me. I didn't say anything on Facebook either, because I don't want to seem like a whiner. Maybe it's not such a bad thing, the net result is that I participate less in public discussions on Facebook, and instead discuss these things privately with close friends instead.
- gerbilly 8y agoWe live in the society of the spectacle as predicted by Guy Debord, in which he argues that authentic social life has been replaced with its representation. Relevant quotes: "All that once was directly lived has become mere representation." “The spectacle is a social relation between people that is mediated by an accumulation of images that serve to alienate us from a genuinely lived life. The image is thus an historical mutation of the form of commodity fetishism.” “... just as early industrial capitalism moved the focus of existence from being to having [things], post-industrial culture has moved that focus from having to appearing.”
- olivermarks 8y agoThis FB example of the social 'stage set' individuals can set up for themselves at no cost to project on the world is arguably a micro example of what the pr machine behind politicians and showbiz personalities push out to us. It's getting harder and harder to find what's authentic unless you actually manage to physically meet these people in unmanaged and scripted situations...
- ppeetteerr 8y agoWhat if it was not the fault of social media? What if the platforms were only there for people to express themselves in which ever way they felt comfortable doing publicly? It seems that this woman was not speaking to her father about her mental illness nor to her friends. Social media might have shocked the observer but the mask is only created in the minds of her followers ("I thought she was a one-dimensional happy person. I'm shocked to discover there is more to this person than her public profile!") Perhaps the real story here is about the audience of this woman's profile. They were naive in thinking that a collection of photos and posts represents a person in its entirety.
- rchaud 8y agoWhat if the platforms were only there for people to express themselves in which ever way they felt comfortable doing publicly? If the social media companies limited themselves to just that, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The fact is, they specifically zero in on stuff that "engages", so if you happened to innocently like a friend's vacation photo, your feed will be modified to show you more of that stuff, because the machine thinks that's what you want to see all the time. If you're involved in animal rights advocacy, don't be surprised if your feed is full of horrible pictures of overcrowding and abusive conditions on farms. If you're interested in fitness, IG will show you a flood of semi-pornographic "workout routines" of fitness models, but very little about proper form. These are platforms where the search functionality is intentionally gimped to search for usernames and hashtags as opposed to actual text content, which a lot of IG posts have; it's not all just pics and videos.
- ppeetteerr 8y ago> which ever way they felt comfortable doing publicly They are. Your argument seems to confound the author and the audience. Sure, the audience is shown only what they like. As you correctly point out, that is the engagement social media seeks to maximize. The author, on the other hand, is free to publish what they choose.
- rchaud 8y ago
- habosa 8y agoI knew before I clicked this would be Madison. I didn't know her but I went to Penn and was a student there when she died. It shook the whole school, and then a wave of other student suicides followed. I'm sure all of these other students had happy pictures on their Facebook too, but for whatever reason Madison's story was the one that went national and still seems to echo back. Nothing to say that hasn't been said ... it's beyond tragic and nobody will ever be able to explain it. I do think the focus on social media here is misguided or at least not productive. Penn and other colleges need more readily available mental health services and programs to reduce the stigma around accessing them. From what I hear, not much has changed on that front.
- Celexior 8y agoI think her story is out a lot because for a lot of people it seems easy to understand. She was at a new school who was hard, and due to the pressure she killed herself. I think the story is way more dense than that, plus the fact that you never know what is really going on inside people head. But the simplification of the story, the rather attractive girl, the perfect life that she was posting on social network, the big and famous university are some of the factors that might explains why she is more publicized than other. But every fight need a face, and today she is the face.
- danso 8y agoSame here, when I saw the `(2015)` in the title. I didn't remember the exact year of Holleran's story, just that when ESPN published it, it was very notable and alarming. People were cynical about social media back then, but they weren't as outright hostile, in the way that it's common to be so today. Just as you said for yourself, her story spoke more to me as a story about how severe depression can hide in plain sight, in any era, but also in an age where constant checkins and engagement is almost mandated by social media. I didn't get the impression at all that the tragedy was exacerbated by social media, other than possibly misleading her loved ones to think she was happier than she was.
- DoreenMichele 8y agoPenn and other colleges need more readily available mental health services Unfortunately, that's actually kind of a bandaid approach. It's a little like saying "We don't really need to make the factory safer so fewer people get hurt. We just need another doctor in our on-site clinic and it should be a free visit if the injury occurred on the job." You go to a mental health professional because something is wrong. Often, that something wrong is social/environmental. This trope that depressed people just need better access to mental health professionals is a left-handed way of blaming those individuals and suggesting they are simply randomly defective and washing our hands of trying to make a better world. In most cases, they are more rightly viewed as "the presenting problem" -- the signifier of something systemic gone wrong. Family counselors are routinely presented with a situation where, for example, a teenager is acting out and being labeled as The Problem. They never accept that as the actual truth. They know that they need to deal with the family dynamic. Simply blaming the teen as the easy out will not go good places.
- maxaf 8y agoWell, don't all just sit there: tell your children that social media is poison, and act aggressively to root it out. The current generation of young adults is likely beyond salvation, but the one after - the current <17 cohort, perhaps - may still be helped. I'm around children a lot, especially the 10-12 age group which happens to be my daughter's social circle. I'm amazed to see how many kids are glued to Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, and other such apps that I don't even know about. Either we act now, or it'll be too late for that generation, as well. It's very easy for an adult to lock down which apps can be used on a child's device, which websites can be accessed, etc. Social media can be stopped, but this must happen one tedious step at a time.
- intellix 8y agoThere are forums specially designed for people with mental health problems: no link in the article?
- rchaud 8y agoFor liability reasons, newspapers are notoriously wary of naming specific organizations or linking to third-party sites , especially in the case of sensitive topics like MH treatment, in case it's mistaken as an endorsement.
- oneiric 8y agohttp://suicidepreventionlifeline.org http://suicidepreventionlifeline.org https://afsp.org https://afsp.org http://www.madisonholleranfoundation.org http://www.madisonholleranfoundation.org
- laythea 8y agoIsn't this part of the problem. I mean "facebook life" is an expression I do not use. I highly recommend others don't also.
- themacguffinman 8y agoHow does avoiding the term help at all? Will restricting our vocabulary somehow counteract the phenomenon of people portraying different lives on their Facebook profiles?
- laythea 8y agoUsing the term "facebook life" demonstrates a certain mentality
- Noos 8y agoThis has very little to do with social media. It helps to read the linked espn article, which goes into far greater detail. http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12833146/instagram-account-university-pennsylvania-runner-showed-only-part-story http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12833146/instagr... "Everyone now agrees that Madison was depressed, though she had never previously exhibited symptoms. (Depression exists on Jim's side of the family.) Something had changed with her brain chemistry. She was not seeing the world in the same way she had before. She had lost weight too, had become so thin as to appear sick. The day before Madison returned to Penn for spring semester, she had a session with her therapist that Jim (note her father) also attended. She admitted to having suicidal thoughts. "If you have suicidal thoughts, don't act them out," her doctor said. "Either call me or call someone in your family."" I don't see how social media can mask anything once this happens. The article mentions Jim din't like to discuss suicide as to encourage it, but he also mentioned transferring, and Madison herself went to her coach with a letter to quit track. There's no "masking" at this point. The issue is, to be blunt people don't take these kind of things seriously. They want to believe the person will power through it and any signs that they do they seize on. I think maybe the sense of public failure-that she would have to drop out due to the pressure- guides this, as well as the realization of a mental illness. I know HN has their own memes now, but it's kind of odd to blame social media when the young woman had plenty of real contact with family, friends, and coaches. But people here are invested into "social media= bad" that articles like this really fuel their prejudices.
- oneiric 8y agoFor even more detail, there is a book. http://www.madisonholleranfoundation.org http://www.madisonholleranfoundation.org
- throw7 8y agoBlaming "social media" is as dumb as blaming the young adult book "Reconstructing Amelia". Heck, if I was to presume anything, I'd blame her parents before blaming anything else (read: i'm not). Who has it harder? The jock with the flawless physique, the hottest girlfriend, and the perfectly thrown spiral; or the nerd who get's pushed around and laughed at by all the girls? The answers are not so easy.
- anm89 8y agoWhy would facebook be the place where you choose to publicly portray your mental illness? Most people are going to choose to share some positive aspects of their live. Should they be posting emotional outbursts or breakdowns? I take plenty of issues with social media but this is just facebook bashing for sport.
- iamleppert 8y agoI’ve experienced suicide deeply and personal. One of my best friends and my mother killed herself. Suicide, at its root, is a violent and mostly selfish act. It shows that you do not care about the world or the people in it that you leave behind who will bear the real emotional toll of your actions. It’s the ultimate and final “fuck you” and it will forever leave a scar on your victims in your family, friends and community. It’s the act of an evil person. I don’t feel sorry for this girl. She’s a selfish spoiled brat who didn’t care about other people in her life, just like everyone else who kills themselves. If we can find solace it is that she is now in a place where she can’t do any further damage to others.
- DanBC 8y ago> It shows that you do not care I've interviewed people who tried to kill themselves but lived, and not one of them said that suicide was a "fuck you" gesture. Every single one of them spoke about their firmly held belief that their family would be better off without them. Suicide as a fuck you gesture is very rare, and tends to be accompanied with murder.
- iamleppert 8y agoI wouldn’t be so sure and I respectfully disagree. It’s a coping mechanism. If I tried to kill my self and failed, and then was asked why I did it, of course I would take the position of a martyr. It’s the mark of true evil.
- loceng 8y agoI can understand the hurt and bitterness you feel, however it may not simply be that they do not care about the world or the people in it anymore - it could also be that they're no longer able to care. It's a subtle difference, however I can only imagine that most people do try to stay alive, they fight to survive - ending your life being perhaps the most extreme measure. I imagine it is the last resort in someone's mind if they do end their life. Whether they knew of help they could get or were able to access it, or if the rest of society cared enough to help adequately, is another question. I don't think blaming those who commit suicide is useful for anyone though, albeit it may on a shallow level temporarily help deal with the emotions for those who are alive and suffering from the act - there are ways to process the hurt and remember those we love in peace.
- keepmesmall 8y agoTo me it seems to be caused by the technological imbalance caused by DRM. If people have social media clients that are wholly in their control (to e.g. integrate a bunch of different personas, platforms, and to have total control over the privacy aspects) the double-bind will dissipate, as mastery over your social media is no longer against the law. IMO law should forbid social media platforms from employing DRM altogether. Their monetization scheme will eventually adapt and Facebook and Google's financial situation is none of my conern.