9 ms·

There are a few ways of looking at this. Most of the more engineery-types are pointing out the inevitability of failure, the challenges trying to find a good en

There are a few ways of looking at this. Most of the more engineery-types are pointing out the inevitability of failure, the challenges trying to find a good enough substrate to mount a touchscreen stack on, and trying to protect an exposed external hinge from impact, and all that material engineering science stuff that's really clever... But well besides the point. I can't even rationalise why anybody wants a folding screen. This seems like a gimmick searching for a market, not an answer to demand. And if this was the lowest hanging fruit for R&D to develop the next generation of phones, I think we're finally facing real stagnation in the phone market. Screen pixel density exceeds eyesight. Battery density limits are as far as known science can push them. Storage is beyond what we can reasonably use. 4G is fast enough. They've made every size of phone between a stamp and a tablet. There's nothing left to do. Phones are as dead as the PC. What's next?

hprotagonist 8y ago
anti-phone peripherals. Now that phones are the ubiquitous computers everyone has, we need a next tier down for persisting contact with less addiction! watches, wireless earbuds.
kalado 8y ago
I would like a folding screen for the same reason as everybody else. You can put it in your jeans pocket. Want to watch a move on the train? Pull out your fold and you have a pretty decent size tv. Same for everything else. Only if it doesn't break of course.
- shusson 8y ago
  > I would like a folding screen Just slap on a VR headset.
  - trehalose 8y ago
    What's a good pocket-sized VR headset you'd recommend?
    - shusson 8y ago
      A folding one
      - mort96 8y ago
        Do you have any particular models in mind?
sandworm101 8y ago
>> They've made every size of phone between a stamp and a tablet. There's nothing left to do. Really? My dream phone doesn't exist yet. I want a phone that is reliable, that lasts more than a few days on a single charge. I want one with two USB connections. I want one with a proper headphone jack, and a speaker that is loud enough to hear properly while driving (without a mount). For these features I am willing to trade size/weight. This phone doesn't exist yet. Until it does there remains room for improvement.
- the-pigeon 8y ago
  Why do you want your phone charge to last more than a day? Can't you just charge it while you sleep?
  - misterprime 8y ago
    Sleeping in the middle of nowhere to enjoy some stargazing perhaps? Stuck in an airport overnight? Long term local power outage? There are nice things about long lasting batteries.
    - freehunter 8y ago
      And for all of those things, external battery packs exist that you can carry with you. To anyone who complains that they won't be happy until the perfect device exists that meets all their needs and nothing they don't and doesn't need adapters or dongles to do it: I still use serial cables at least once a month. Do you hear me complaining that I can't find a laptop that includes a serial port? No. Because I recognize that my need is niche and adapters exist to fulfill that need. It doesn't need to be baked into a mass-market device. I'm an adult and can solve my own problems with readily-available tools.
      - adrianhel 8y ago
        <satire> I still use PDAs when I need a portable computer. Do you hear me complaining about that? No. Because I recognize that my need is niche and PDAs exist to fulfill my need. It doesn't need to be baked into a mass market device. I'm an adult that can bring both a phone and a PDA. </satire>
benj111 8y ago
"There's nothing left to do. Phones are as dead as the PC." My toilet has a cistern, u bend, and all the features of a toilet of 100 years ago. Never the less toilets are far from dead. What you are describing is a mature product, not a dead product.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  My toilet is dramatically different, better ceramic and less of it, lighter. It's a close-coupled cistern doing away with some piping. It's dual flush, uses much less water; it even has a redesigned ball-cock (float shut-off valve). It has a soft-close removeable seat/lid. It's actually surprising the amount of new tech in a regular toilet - even compared to 20 years ago. And that's not a complex automated toilet, just a standard UK crapper.
  - xenospn 8y ago
    I'm assuming you don't buy a new toilet every 3 years or so. And therein lies the problem.
  - benj111 8y ago
    I've never weighed a toilet ?! So I cant comment on that. Close coupled cisterns have been around for over a century. The ball cock redesign is a result of the dual flush arrangement (I thought?). But yes that is a change. Having never come across a soft close lid on a toilet I can't agree they're anything close to standard, I'm sure they exist though. (I'm British also btw, so our experience should somewhat match) So that's one change mandated by law? You raise a good point about Japanese toilets though.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      >Close coupled cisterns have been around for over a century // That's interesting, high cisterns (with a chain!) were still common, when I was younger (80s) these were replaced by low cisterns with a pipe between. In the last 2 decades in the UK these have been replaced by close-coupled systems IME. Re weight, firing is costly, you can improve the shape to reduce the mass of clay which reduces firing costs considerably. I've taken out 50 yr old toilets and fitted new ones. All the recent commercial fittings (ie in businesses, or in domestic settings done by plumbers) I've seen have been soft close & removeable. There's still a bug IMO, they need some sort of arrangement to make them lift quickly but lower slowly, or soft close only at the extremes of travel (soft close drawers have it, so I guess it'll come; probably a price issue). The toilet cistern ball cock has changed twice AFAIK, once to accommodate the dual flush (central column), and again to alter the hinging to improve the pressure applied at the valve and reduce leaks. What were we talking about again ...
Anarch157a 8y ago
> I can't even rationalise why anybody wants a folding screen Look atbhow thick it is when folded. At that size, a normal screen, with a huge battery and a sliding hardware keyboard would much better. For me, it would be an instant buy.
rchaud 8y ago
Samsung's DeX software on the Galaxy S10 and Tab S4 lets you run an Ubuntu ARM installation when the phone is connected to an external monitor. I could definitely see the use for a phone that unfolds into a tablet for work stuff, without requiring the extra peripherals. I'd much rather carry a single device that can do it all, but a 7.3 inch screen isn't going to get me there. I'm more interested in the Huawei Mate X, that has an 8-inch screen when unfolded.
NoodleIncident 8y ago
It's a tablet that fits in your pocket. Of course people want it. However I remember comments like this one about the original iPad in the first place... because I was thinking the same thing at the time. So if you still don't get the appeal of tablets, then a folding phone also won't appeal to you.
neogodless 8y ago
Uh... removable batteries?! I jest, but my best hope for a stagnant market is competition on merits that we really want, and less so for the whizz-bang features that attract attention without improving our lives. I've got a used Nexus 6P with a dying battery. I don't know of any improvements in newer phones I need (except security updates!) but I'm torn whether I want to learn how to replace the battery and risk damage, or shell out some bucks for a local repair shop to do it. Let new phones come out that are "as good as" the current phones, but reintroduce features we had to "give up" to get them this good. Batteries, useful I/O ports, comfortable shapes to fit our faces...
- dmix 8y ago
  Why did batteries stop being replaceable again? I'm guessing it makes the design of the phone circuitry easier? You don't have to make the case removable? The idea that it forces you to buy a new phone never seemed like a good reason to me.
  - jmull 8y ago
    Phone batteries are replaceable. Just not directly by end-users (well, not most end-users). There are design tradeoffs to make the batteries user-replaceable. E.g., the batteries are going to need a casing and socket that make them OK for users to handle and replace. The phone's going to need additional casing pieces, latches, and seals, etc. The phone's going to be a little bigger, heavier and more expensive. Maybe not a great tradeoff for something needed once every 2-3 years. I just looked up and Apple is charging $50-$70 to replace your battery, depending on the model. So ~$25-$45 more expensive than a cheap DIY kit from amazon. Considering the various risks of DIY, that's really not that bad to do once every 2-3 years, IMO.
    - rchaud 8y ago
      What you call "design tradeoffs" is what consumers call "basic features". I can't think of a single phone before the iPhone that had non-replaceable batteries. Samsung and LG had replacement slots on their flagships all the way up to 2014/15. You had someone a 2014 LG G3 today, and I doubt anyone would complain about the weight or the size, especially when the top-line iPhone has a 6.5 inch screen. > Maybe not a great tradeoff for something needed once every 2-3 years. The use case for a replaceable battery is for emergency situations, not just when the original stops holding a charge. I would much rather go back to that time when I could discreetly slip in a replacement than have to use a phone attached to a giant brick with a flimsy USB cable.
izzydata 8y ago
I still use my 7" tablet for watching and reading stuff and my 5" phone for phone stuff. The thought of having 1 device instead of 2 is pretty nice. We don't appear to be at that point yet, but if it worked I would use it.
valine 8y ago
I want a folding screen because it will make every part of using phones a nicer experience. There's a reason tablets exist: tablets provide a superior user experience. The foldable form factor lets you put a tablet in your pocket. Nobody understood the need for the iPad when it came out either.
- iainmerrick 8y ago
  I dispute that tablets are a superior user experience. They’re great for some things, but in general phones are better. Phones crush tablets in both sales and usage, and most people have a big phone rather than a small phone and a big tablet.
  - valine 8y ago
    I would say phones crush tablets in sales because you can't put a tablet in your pocket. The folding phone changes this, and that's why its so interesting.
    - iainmerrick 8y ago
      The first good folding phone might change that.
- antisthenes 8y ago
  Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't tablets a niche and have been for a while? Not sure how accurate this graph is: http://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet http://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobi... but it seems like tablet use is dwarfed by both desktop and mobile (not sure where laptops fit into the scheme of things) by a factor of 10. But now it's 2019 and the line between tablets and laptops is blurred. However, I still don't want or need one. It's too big to fit in any pocket and too small to use as your main productivity screen. And only marginally better for watching movies than a flagship phone (which in itself is not a high bar, compared to watching a movie on a big screen TV)

hprotagonist 8y ago

anti-phone peripherals. Now that phones are the ubiquitous computers everyone has, we need a next tier down for persisting contact with less addiction! watches, wireless earbuds.

kalado 8y ago

I would like a folding screen for the same reason as everybody else. You can put it in your jeans pocket. Want to watch a move on the train? Pull out your fold and you have a pretty decent size tv. Same for everything else. Only if it doesn't break of course.

shusson 8y ago
> I would like a folding screen Just slap on a VR headset.
- trehalose 8y ago
  What's a good pocket-sized VR headset you'd recommend?
  - shusson 8y ago
    A folding one
    - mort96 8y ago
      Do you have any particular models in mind?

sandworm101 8y ago

>> They've made every size of phone between a stamp and a tablet. There's nothing left to do. Really? My dream phone doesn't exist yet. I want a phone that is reliable, that lasts more than a few days on a single charge. I want one with two USB connections. I want one with a proper headphone jack, and a speaker that is loud enough to hear properly while driving (without a mount). For these features I am willing to trade size/weight. This phone doesn't exist yet. Until it does there remains room for improvement.

the-pigeon 8y ago
Why do you want your phone charge to last more than a day? Can't you just charge it while you sleep?
- misterprime 8y ago
  Sleeping in the middle of nowhere to enjoy some stargazing perhaps? Stuck in an airport overnight? Long term local power outage? There are nice things about long lasting batteries.
  - freehunter 8y ago
    And for all of those things, external battery packs exist that you can carry with you. To anyone who complains that they won't be happy until the perfect device exists that meets all their needs and nothing they don't and doesn't need adapters or dongles to do it: I still use serial cables at least once a month. Do you hear me complaining that I can't find a laptop that includes a serial port? No. Because I recognize that my need is niche and adapters exist to fulfill that need. It doesn't need to be baked into a mass-market device. I'm an adult and can solve my own problems with readily-available tools.
    - adrianhel 8y ago
      <satire> I still use PDAs when I need a portable computer. Do you hear me complaining about that? No. Because I recognize that my need is niche and PDAs exist to fulfill my need. It doesn't need to be baked into a mass market device. I'm an adult that can bring both a phone and a PDA. </satire>

benj111 8y ago

"There's nothing left to do. Phones are as dead as the PC." My toilet has a cistern, u bend, and all the features of a toilet of 100 years ago. Never the less toilets are far from dead. What you are describing is a mature product, not a dead product.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
My toilet is dramatically different, better ceramic and less of it, lighter. It's a close-coupled cistern doing away with some piping. It's dual flush, uses much less water; it even has a redesigned ball-cock (float shut-off valve). It has a soft-close removeable seat/lid. It's actually surprising the amount of new tech in a regular toilet - even compared to 20 years ago. And that's not a complex automated toilet, just a standard UK crapper.
- xenospn 8y ago
  I'm assuming you don't buy a new toilet every 3 years or so. And therein lies the problem.
- benj111 8y ago
  I've never weighed a toilet ?! So I cant comment on that. Close coupled cisterns have been around for over a century. The ball cock redesign is a result of the dual flush arrangement (I thought?). But yes that is a change. Having never come across a soft close lid on a toilet I can't agree they're anything close to standard, I'm sure they exist though. (I'm British also btw, so our experience should somewhat match) So that's one change mandated by law? You raise a good point about Japanese toilets though.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    >Close coupled cisterns have been around for over a century // That's interesting, high cisterns (with a chain!) were still common, when I was younger (80s) these were replaced by low cisterns with a pipe between. In the last 2 decades in the UK these have been replaced by close-coupled systems IME. Re weight, firing is costly, you can improve the shape to reduce the mass of clay which reduces firing costs considerably. I've taken out 50 yr old toilets and fitted new ones. All the recent commercial fittings (ie in businesses, or in domestic settings done by plumbers) I've seen have been soft close & removeable. There's still a bug IMO, they need some sort of arrangement to make them lift quickly but lower slowly, or soft close only at the extremes of travel (soft close drawers have it, so I guess it'll come; probably a price issue). The toilet cistern ball cock has changed twice AFAIK, once to accommodate the dual flush (central column), and again to alter the hinging to improve the pressure applied at the valve and reduce leaks. What were we talking about again ...

Anarch157a 8y ago

> I can't even rationalise why anybody wants a folding screen Look atbhow thick it is when folded. At that size, a normal screen, with a huge battery and a sliding hardware keyboard would much better. For me, it would be an instant buy.

rchaud 8y ago

Samsung's DeX software on the Galaxy S10 and Tab S4 lets you run an Ubuntu ARM installation when the phone is connected to an external monitor. I could definitely see the use for a phone that unfolds into a tablet for work stuff, without requiring the extra peripherals. I'd much rather carry a single device that can do it all, but a 7.3 inch screen isn't going to get me there. I'm more interested in the Huawei Mate X, that has an 8-inch screen when unfolded.

NoodleIncident 8y ago

It's a tablet that fits in your pocket. Of course people want it. However I remember comments like this one about the original iPad in the first place... because I was thinking the same thing at the time. So if you still don't get the appeal of tablets, then a folding phone also won't appeal to you.

neogodless 8y ago

Uh... removable batteries?! I jest, but my best hope for a stagnant market is competition on merits that we really want, and less so for the whizz-bang features that attract attention without improving our lives. I've got a used Nexus 6P with a dying battery. I don't know of any improvements in newer phones I need (except security updates!) but I'm torn whether I want to learn how to replace the battery and risk damage, or shell out some bucks for a local repair shop to do it. Let new phones come out that are "as good as" the current phones, but reintroduce features we had to "give up" to get them this good. Batteries, useful I/O ports, comfortable shapes to fit our faces...

dmix 8y ago
Why did batteries stop being replaceable again? I'm guessing it makes the design of the phone circuitry easier? You don't have to make the case removable? The idea that it forces you to buy a new phone never seemed like a good reason to me.
- jmull 8y ago
  Phone batteries are replaceable. Just not directly by end-users (well, not most end-users). There are design tradeoffs to make the batteries user-replaceable. E.g., the batteries are going to need a casing and socket that make them OK for users to handle and replace. The phone's going to need additional casing pieces, latches, and seals, etc. The phone's going to be a little bigger, heavier and more expensive. Maybe not a great tradeoff for something needed once every 2-3 years. I just looked up and Apple is charging $50-$70 to replace your battery, depending on the model. So ~$25-$45 more expensive than a cheap DIY kit from amazon. Considering the various risks of DIY, that's really not that bad to do once every 2-3 years, IMO.
  - rchaud 8y ago
    What you call "design tradeoffs" is what consumers call "basic features". I can't think of a single phone before the iPhone that had non-replaceable batteries. Samsung and LG had replacement slots on their flagships all the way up to 2014/15. You had someone a 2014 LG G3 today, and I doubt anyone would complain about the weight or the size, especially when the top-line iPhone has a 6.5 inch screen. > Maybe not a great tradeoff for something needed once every 2-3 years. The use case for a replaceable battery is for emergency situations, not just when the original stops holding a charge. I would much rather go back to that time when I could discreetly slip in a replacement than have to use a phone attached to a giant brick with a flimsy USB cable.

izzydata 8y ago

I still use my 7" tablet for watching and reading stuff and my 5" phone for phone stuff. The thought of having 1 device instead of 2 is pretty nice. We don't appear to be at that point yet, but if it worked I would use it.

valine 8y ago

I want a folding screen because it will make every part of using phones a nicer experience. There's a reason tablets exist: tablets provide a superior user experience. The foldable form factor lets you put a tablet in your pocket. Nobody understood the need for the iPad when it came out either.

iainmerrick 8y ago
I dispute that tablets are a superior user experience. They’re great for some things, but in general phones are better. Phones crush tablets in both sales and usage, and most people have a big phone rather than a small phone and a big tablet.
- valine 8y ago
  I would say phones crush tablets in sales because you can't put a tablet in your pocket. The folding phone changes this, and that's why its so interesting.
  - iainmerrick 8y ago
    The first good folding phone might change that.
antisthenes 8y ago
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't tablets a niche and have been for a while? Not sure how accurate this graph is: http://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet http://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobi... but it seems like tablet use is dwarfed by both desktop and mobile (not sure where laptops fit into the scheme of things) by a factor of 10. But now it's 2019 and the line between tablets and laptops is blurred. However, I still don't want or need one. It's too big to fit in any pocket and too small to use as your main productivity screen. And only marginally better for watching movies than a flagship phone (which in itself is not a high bar, compared to watching a movie on a big screen TV)