12 ms·
A Measles Case Hits Google's Silicon Valley Headquarters
- aassddffasdf 8y agoSo, what's the big deal here? The only people affected should be those who were too stupid to take the vaccine. The rest of us can rest easy and let Darwin do his work.
- chrisBob 8y agoOr infants who aren’t old enough to get the vaccine, but screw them, right?
- aassddffasdf 8y agoIn this climate, if I had an infant I'd consider quarantining him or her until old enough to get the vaccine.
- dragonwriter 8y ago> The only people affected should be those who were too stupid to take the vaccine. One dose (normally scheduled at 12-15 months) is 93% effective, two doses (the second usually scheduled at 4-6 years) are 97% effective, and there are people too young or with other non-stupidity reasons for not having (yet, in the case of age alone) even the first dose, so, no, it's not just stupid people at risk.
- tunesmith 8y agoThere are a collection of people who are unable to take vaccines for medical or age reasons. They rely on herd immunity. If herd immunity is compromised, then their risk increases. For someone considering to avoid vaccination for personal reasons, this is an example of moral hazard.
- lake99 8y agoCancer patients, AIDS patients, organ recipients all have compromised immune systems. They'd all be at risk because of irrational choices their colleagues made.
- randyrand 8y agojust a side note: Measles vaccine is given at 1-1.5 years of age. Hopefully not too many babies have cancer, aids, and organ transplants.
- lake99 8y agoDoesn't matter if they were previously immunized. A compromised immune system can wipe out previous immunity.
- briantakita 8y agoThat begs the question, shouldn't we be more focused on promoting strong immune systems? "wiping out a previous immunity" doesn't sound like an immunity to me.
- lake99 8y agoNothing in medicine is as straightforward as that. Most cancer treatments end up wiping out or suppressing many different kinds of cells, and a temporary suppression of white blood cells is considered an acceptable side effect. AIDS will have to be cured. A strong immune system often attacks donor organ cells, so the immune system is intentionally weakened. We may eventually develop solutions for all three issues, but I don't expect it to happen in our lifetimes. Heck, I predict we'll be cloning body parts in labs to obviate the need for anti-rejection meds long before we learn to fine-tune our immune response.
- briantakita 8y ago> Nothing in medicine is as straightforward as that Which begs the question, why do we make an exception with vaccines? It seems like vaccines are being presented as completely safe & completely effective by some proponents. You see nuance in this issue, but then, why are critics of vaccines silenced & ridiculed? I thought "nothing in medicine is straightforward"...
- DanFeldman 8y ago> In 2015, Wired reported that one daycare at Google had a 68% measles vaccination rate, although Google contested the accuracy of the article at the time.
- aaronbrethorst 8y agoHerd immunity for measles requires a vaccination rate of 95%. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/herd-immunity/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/herd-immunity/
- apr 8y agoHerd immunity science is shaky to say the least: http://www.tetyanaobukhanych.com/herd_immunity.html http://www.tetyanaobukhanych.com/herd_immunity.html
- URSpider94 8y agoThe source you quoted is a well-known quack.
- apr 8y agoShe is a trained immunologist, but besides, her article is well reasoned and provides references for every fact she cites. Compare that to the PBS article in the root comment. Attaching a moniker "quack" at will is no way to have a discussion.
- wtallis 8y agoThat article is not at all well-reasoned. There's a core of truth, which is that even with 100% vaccination a population may not always have effective herd immunity from measles, because the vaccine is not 100% effective over all timespans, and the threshold of immunity required for effective herd immunity against something as insanely infectious as measles is quite high. But the author goes far beyond that conclusion and rails against the very idea of herd immunity, and claims that since herd immunity may not be possible in practice when dealing with measles, there should be no stigma against opting out of vaccination. These conclusions are very weakly argued, and the obvious counter-arguments are not addressed.
- dogma1138 8y agoWe had a case of measels in my London office 2 weeks ago was quite funny coming to the office and seeing an HR email with a PDF of a scanned government letter which contained a mandatory disclosure and advising people to contact health services.
- ggm 8y agoI would expect some of this has roots in anti-vaxx, but is it possible more of this vests in the increase in social mobility (between states, between economies) and therefore the rise in out-of-herd contact risks?
- Florin_Andrei 8y agoThe virus moves more easily with increased social mobility, yes. But it finds a solid ground much more effectively when herd immunity is compromised, as it is today in many places, thanks to the anti-vax delusion.
- dogma1138 8y agoConsidering just how many people from outside of the US Google employes it's quite possible that they simply came from a country that historically didn't have a good vaccine coverage for example India. Heck according to this data https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/sh.imm.meas https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/sh.imm.meas In 1980 even Germany had 25% vaccination coverage but I'm guessing it could include East Germany too so a developer in their mid 30's simply might not been vaccinated at a young age and if they didn't travel to high risk countries, joined the military or worked with at risk groups it was never caught.
- kupaka 8y agoThe measles vaccine is required for a US immigrant visa https://www.uscis.gov/news/questions-and-answers/vaccination-requirements https://www.uscis.gov/news/questions-and-answers/vaccination...
- dogma1138 8y agoStarting in 2009, you could’ve been born in Germany in the 80s which had poor coverage at the time immigrated to the US in the late 90’s and you would not be vaccinated.
- cjensen 8y agoSure. But the Bay Area has long had a large population of Indian immigrants without ever having a measles problem. This is almost certainly caused by anti-vax issues rather than immigration from poorly vaccinated countries.
- fzeroracer 8y agoI do wonder if we'll eventually get to the point where companies start either firing or requiring mandatory vaccines in order to work there. This would naturally be a fairly massive invasion of privacy, but does your right to privacy and right to not vaccinate trump the right of the company to protect their workers? Eventually it's going to come to a head and either companies will force vaccinations or the government will.
- rubicon33 8y agoI cant stand the "invasion of privacy" bull shit. You (proverbial you) invade my health by walking about with measles. I think it's well within any group, even government, to mandate vaccinations that have been PROVEN to be effective. Privacy takes a back seat to health. EDIT: And I love how this gets downvoted. Likely by people who vastly misunderstand mechanism of disease. Also likely the same people who show no courtesy to others when they are sick, and continue to frequent stores and social establishments, coughing and hacking with zero thought about it.
- fzeroracer 8y agoI fully agree with you, particularly because not vaccinating means you're threatening the people who don't have a choice in the matter due to immune system or allergic reasons. Unfortunately that's the framing of the argument though. It's people who value privacy and self-determination over everything else, even the health and well-being of those around them.
- arcticbull 8y agoThere's tons of things that you "do to yourself" that are controlled via legislation -- smoking is the best example. You're free to do it at home, but not in places where you can adversely impact the health of others. Your freedoms end where my rights begin, so to speak. If you don't want to get vaccinated ... don't leave home. If you want to enter a public area, you better have your shots.
- shard972 8y ago
- phendrenad2 8y agoHow does one know if they're vaccinated or not? Who has a complete medical transcript going back to their childhood? How do they even get the vaccination rate data? I call BS.
- gcc_programmer 8y agoHow do we all know you are stupid? We somehow figured it out
- sctb 8y agoYour comments have been falling short of the standard of discourse here. Could you please review the guidelines and then follow them? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> How does one know if they're vaccinated or not? Ask your doctor. If it isn’t in your records, an antibody titer blood test is definitive. For public health purposes, these data have been collected for a long time.
- favorited 8y agoThe tests are more time consuming and expensive than just getting a new MMR vaccine. If you were vaccinated, then there will be no effect because your immune system will kill the live virus in the vaccine. If you weren't, then you are going to need the vaccine when your tests come back anyway. Plus in some places (like California) you can get a free MMR vaccine at pharmacies like CVS, without making a doctor appointment.
- krastanov 8y agoI am confused... Everyone I know has a complete vaccination transcript going back to birth. I have passed through 3 different national systems (one of them being the US, where the records are not kept at a national level), and all these places have records up to the time I left them. I did not do anything special for that - it was almost automatic, except for once when I had to pay for a cheap language translation.
- nothrabannosir 8y agoPSA for anyone living in the UK: the measles (+ mumps & rubella) vaccine is 100% free under the NHS, no questions asked. Call your GP and get an appointment, easy as pie!
- humanrebar 8y agoI'm sure cost is not a concern for Google employees though.
- tareqak 8y agoAnything that removes friction in the decision-making process would result in higher conversion.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- microcolonel 8y agoIt is free or almost free effectively everywhere in the western world, the problem is that some people actively choose not to vaccinate. In California, any qualified pharmacy can administer the vaccine and be reimbursed for it by Medi-Cal.
- massivecali 8y agoWhat are the standards for UK vaccinations? I've read that there are different vaccines used for MMR and some countries have a single dose or 2 spread apart. I have no idea what's preferred or why. Just curious.
- peteretep 8y agolmgtfy etc: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/mmr-vaccine/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/mmr-vaccine/
- lukewrites 8y agoWe are starting to look at preschools for our son, and I immediately strike from the list any that does not require immunization. It's disheartening how many don't have the requirement.
- aquabeagle 8y agoThose that require it, do you ask if they allow exemptions for "religious reasons"?
- NeoBasilisk 8y agoAmazing that a disease that was eradicated decades ago can be brought back so easily by human stupidity
- gnulinux 8y agoMeasles was never "eradicated".
- NeoBasilisk 8y agoThat is true. What I meant to say is that any real threat of getting the disease in the US was eradicated.
- SCAQTony 8y ago"...Measles was declared eliminated (absence of continuous disease transmission for greater than 12 months) from the United States in 2000. ..." Measles History from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html
- apr 8y agoThis is some shady definition. There were outbreaks in 1999, so really what does "eliminated" mean? To me it has never been "eliminated". https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4925a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4925a1.htm
- nostrademons 8y agoThe CDC page he linked to defines "eliminated", as does his comment: "absence of continuous disease transmission for greater than 12 months". You can have outbreaks of a disease that have been eliminated from a population: the disease can be reintroduced from some other population. But what you don't have is person-to-person transmission within the population.
- 8y ago
- massivecali 8y agoThe outbreak on the east coast was from a large orthodox Jewish community, who as I understand it, rejects vaccinations on religious grounds. Was the person in this case from there or in contact with people from there? https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/04/16/how-patient-zero-spread-measles-across-state-lines-infected-people/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/04/16/how-patient...
- js2 8y agoThere’s nothing in Jewish teachings[0] to justify an anti-vaccination stance. However, as an insular community it is particularly susceptible to anti-vaccine misinformation[1]. 0. In numerous states parents wishing not to vaccinate their children are permitted to sign a document stating that their religious convictions do not allow them to; based on this signature the child will then be permitted to attend school under the law. It is reported that small numbers of parents in Jewish schools have signed such documents. For a parent of a yeshiva student to sign such a statement in the name of Judaism is not just inappropriate, it is false. Whether a posek will rule that childhood immunizations are obligatory in halakhah or are discretionary (but highly advisable), there is no position in halakhah that says there is any prohibition or compelling reason to refrain from such vaccinations. http://www.hakirah.org/Vol13Bush.pdf http://www.hakirah.org/Vol13Bush.pdf 1. “How Orthodox Jewish Nurses Are Fighting 'Anti-Vaccination Propaganda' Targeting Their Community” http://gothamist.com/2019/03/26/orthodox_jewish_nurses_vaccines.php http://gothamist.com/2019/03/26/orthodox_jewish_nurses_vacci...
- vladgur 8y agothere were NO religious grounds(confirmed by a number of religious leaders). This was mostly due to anti-vaxx propaganda and closedness of the community
- massivecali 8y agoSo centered in specific religious community that has their own neighborhoods, ambulances and police force and susceptible to outsider propaganda somehow? But not in any way on religious grounds? What's the reasoning? Just because religious leaders outside the community have different opinions doesn't automatically mean 'no religious grounds'. It just means they see things differently.
- Chris_Chambers 8y agoVaccines are dysgenic. The weak should be allowed to perish, otherwise the gene pool will degrade. Everyone who is vaccinated should therefore also be sterilized, and anyone resisting this should be killed. If you disagree, you’re wrong.
- cletus 8y agoThe scary thing about anti-vaxxers, at least to me, is how susceptible educated people can be to essentially baseless fear mongering. So when I worked at Google I (and many others) got into an argument with a software engineer who had strong anti-vax opinions and honestly, it's mind-boggling how removed from reality people can get, even people with a supposed science education. I'm glad California has started clamping down on personal belief exemptions. That still leaves medical exemptions and unfortunately it seems like some doctors are complicit in giving baseless medical exemptions. In New York we've had cases of immunization records being falsified. I'm not sure if it's by doctors or parents (maybe both). Honestly any medical professional who falsifies immunization records or provides bogus medical exemptions needs to be jailed. So I'm honestly not surprised measles is showing up in SV tech companies.
- OldFatCactus 8y agoI feel this way about college-educated adults that I meet that believe in Astrology. So nuts how many I've met since moving to New York
- wrsh07 8y agoOne of these things is not like the other Astrology outbreaks are not a concern of mine Even when the moon is in retrograde
- dmitryminkovsky 8y agoEh something about astrology is really unsettling. Yes, not like antivaxers, but I’m with GP.
- wrsh07 8y agoHonestly, for most people, an effective model is to think of it like a sport. It's something people obsess over, can impact their emotions and otherwise is pretty harmless
- microcolonel 8y ago> As Google fights criticism that it has let anti-vaccine disinformation flourish on its platform When you thought you were getting information about a measles outbreak, but really you're being told that Google doesn't censor people enough. This is a really slimy way to operate, and if BuzzFeed News didn't have enough to be ashamed of themselves about lately, add this to the list.
- fyoving 8y agoWhat kind of article is that? "Google causes measles and now one of them has it". Is that ironic? Is this journalism now?
- wetpaws 8y agoI think this is a sad reminder that beliefs do not correlate with intelligence and even smartest people are not immune from doing stupid stuff.
- fyoving 8y agoWe don't know how this person got infected or if they even work there so you can't make that conclusion.
- bArray 8y agoExactly. There are reasons why one may not be immune: 1. The vaccine failed to create immunization 2. They were not vaccinated at some young age, but always assumed they were The article seems to suggest that this person was an anti-vaxxer as opposed to a casualty of anti-vaxxer ideology.
- HarryHirsch 8y agoThank God it's only measles, it causes encephalitis in just 0.5 % of the cases, and the mortality is only 0.25 %. Imagine it was mumps! A frequent complication in men is orchitis, and there are really gruesome photos with the scrotum the size of an orange!
- Someone1234 8y ago5% of children get pneumonia from Measles. 0.01-0.1% chance of Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis which can develop up to ten years after initial Measles infection. SSPE will very slowly kills you in the worst way imaginable (slowly lose your mind, control of your body, then as your brain continues to get damaged your major organs will shut down one by one). There's no cure. Babies have a significantly higher risk.
- Myrmornis 8y agoWhy have some journalists written an article about one person getting measles out of a huge number of people working somewhere in California?
- drivingmenuts 8y agoBecause Google is a large employer so the possibility of contagion is large? Imagine if someone working at Apple’s UFO caught The Plague. That would certainly be of some concern. Same with Amazon in Seattle, or even an Amazon warehouse. People come and go from all of those places constantly and one person could have an outsized impact on people who are otherwise completely unrelated to the origin of the disease.
- amatecha 8y agoI think "journalist" might be a bit generous in this case! haha
- anonu 8y agoThis seems like a minor story that is being embellished and extrapolated out to be something way crazier than both the headline and the content suggests... One case of the measles prompts a company wide email... And now Google must contend with the scale of such an outbreak.
- drivingmenuts 8y agoI think I’m gonna talk to my doctor about getting immunized. I might have had the shot when I was young but hell if I remember for sure.
- BrissyCoder 8y agoYeah do it. Even if you had the shot immunity wears off. Where I'm from they gave out only 1 when I was young whereas the recommendation is now 2. There's is absolutely no danger in having an extra shot if you can't find out how many you had.
- rum3 8y agoAre they sure it is measles and not amp?
- antoineMoPa 8y agoSilicon Valley company catches virus; calls McAfee & Norton for help without success.
- bArray 8y agoI understand that people feel quite strongly about this subject, but rather than mass flagging people who support/sympathize with anti-vaxxers, it would be much more beneficial to reason with them. As this is a comments section and not a news article, discussing these things is perfectly fine and does not "platform" anti-vaxxers. To change peoples minds we must win hearts and minds, not alienate them. With regards to making links between intelligence and anti-vaxxers (as some here have), unless you have hard numbers then you too are just as susceptible to drawing conclusions without strong facts to back it up. Some of the most intelligent people can still act illogically, just look at the unfortunate later years of Nikola Tesla [1]. > As Google fights criticism that it has let anti-vaccine disinformation > flourish on its platform, [..] Lastly, I don't like the phrasing of this article. There is zero evidence that Google has in some way purposely allowed disinformation to spread. There's a disgusting "serves them right" feel and I think that's really unfair. I am sure Google has put in many resources to prevent disinformation and what people see is what gets through the net. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla
- fake-name 8y agoThe problem here is that you assume they're reasonable. No one is antivaccine from a position of logic or science, because the position is completely impossible to support with either. Antivaccine beliefs are functionally very similar to religion.
- tareqak 8y agoHere is the CDC's page for immunization schedules: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/index.html . They also have an adult vaccine assessment tool here: https://www2a.cdc.gov/nip/adultimmsched/ https://www2a.cdc.gov/nip/adultimmsched/ .
- mancerayder 8y agoIn 2015, Wired reported that one daycare at Google had a 68% measles vaccination rate, although Google contested the accuracy of the article at the time. What a morass of foggy and unverified information, this online hive mind.
- dolguldur 8y agoIs there any scientific literature on potential dangers of these standard vaccines? Maybe newer findings? I’m asking because this is such a polarizing topic that science-trusting people could totally have developed a blind spot by now. I mean some anti-vaxers are so crazy that you might become more pro vaccination than you’d otherwise be and miss some of the truth.
- wtallis 8y ago> Is there any scientific literature on potential dangers of these standard vaccines? Maybe newer findings? > I’m asking because this is such a polarizing topic that science-trusting people could totally have developed a blind spot by now. There are massive publicly-accessible databases of reported possible adverse reactions to vaccines. You can easily download a spreadsheet listing every reported instance of someone developing a runny nose or rash after receiving a vaccine last year in the US. It is very reasonable to assume that the reporting rate for more serious reactions is plenty high enough for any real patterns to be quite noticeable from analyzing that data, at least for the vaccines that are given to large portions of the public. There is no blind spot when it comes to safety of the vaccines that have been recommended for the general public; this is well monitored and the safety of something like the MMR vaccine is supported by a mountain of data. Anyone questioning the long-established safety of common vaccines needs to provide up-front an analysis of VAERS data and a very good explanation for why they think that data is inaccurate.