7 ms·

Problem is its not even a scummy thing to do. Its just the only way to do business on Amazon. If every single company is faking the reviews then you can not aff

Problem is its not even a scummy thing to do. Its just the only way to do business on Amazon. If every single company is faking the reviews then you can not afford to be the only one not faking them. An individual actor is not able to do the right thing because everyone has to at the same time.

mikeklaas 8y ago
It's Moloch.
jamesrcole 8y ago
It can be 'the rules of playing the game' AND also scummy. The overall system may be structured such that it basically forces such behavior. Saying it's scummy doesn't mean that this particular seller went out of their way to be scummy or likes acting in that way. But this doesn't stop it being a scummy practice from the consumer's perspective.
ajross 8y ago
> Its just the only way to do business on Amazon. If every single company is faking the reviews then you can not afford to be the only one not faking them. That's... the only way to do business selling generic garbage on Amason, I guess. But it's not the only way to do business. I mean, the example is headphones. Bose and Beats and Shure no doubt sell a ton of hardware on Amazon on the basis of their established brands and not just reviews. And I'm sure they do fine, and Amazon is happy to have the business. The problem here is the search results, that searching for "headphones" (which is indeed a particularly bad category) gives you a bunch of garbage and not a good selection of products that match your search.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
areyouseriousxx 8y ago
And historically, this is how societies eventually collapse. When the participants no longer act in the greater good and instead revert to the primal instinct of pure self interest. So I would suggest that it is a "scummy thing to do", since if done by the majority of actors, it results in the collapse of a society.
- lowpro 8y ago
  I would say societal collapse happens when regulating bodies no longer align participant self-interest with the greater good. Everyone is self-interested, which is why central authorities must step in for things that benefit individuals but hurt society such as tax evasion, pollution, and (maybe one day) fraudulent reviews. Note I'm not saying this is practical to implement or easy to do, just that central authorities exist for this very purpose.
  - areyouseriousxx 8y ago
    > Everyone is self-interested Is there a citation I can refer to about this statement? I would argue that laws and regulations are to prevent the very impactful minority of actors that would willfully harm others to benefit themselves.
    - porjo 8y ago
      >> Everyone is self-interested > Is there a citation I can refer to about this statement? 'The Book of Life', page 1
      - isoskeles 8y ago
        First, this is quite condescending. Second, the "self-interest" argument doesn't excuse shitty behavior. It might be in my self-interest to steal my neighbor's wallet he forgot outside. It has money in it! Doesn't make it a good idea nor something I would consider as a "self-interested" person. Plus, it's also in my self-interest not to contribute to lowering the bar of a review system. As someone who uses Amazon and other review sites, I don't like the idea of phony reviews, so even if I worked for a company that "depended" on these reviews, I wouldn't feel good about adding to the problem (nor would I feel good that my employer supposedly needs to rely on falsified reviews).
        tern 8y ago
        Incidentally, 'The Book of Life', page 1: https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/how-to-love/ https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/how-to-love/
CHsurfer 8y ago
This sounds like Lance Armstrong's description of what lead to his doping scandal. The point is that it's ok to do it because everyone else is, until it isn't ok any more.
andygates 8y ago
It absolutely is scummy. When reviews are bogus, I stop shopping. Plenty of other places to go. They're poisoning the well.
philipov 8y ago
Just because it's the only way to do business doesn't mean it's not a scummy thing to do. Being required for business is not a moral justification for anything!
loco5niner 8y ago
It IS a scummy thing to do. It's just that lots of people are choosing to do the scummy thing.

mikeklaas 8y ago

It's Moloch.

jamesrcole 8y ago

It can be 'the rules of playing the game' AND also scummy. The overall system may be structured such that it basically forces such behavior. Saying it's scummy doesn't mean that this particular seller went out of their way to be scummy or likes acting in that way. But this doesn't stop it being a scummy practice from the consumer's perspective.

ajross 8y ago

> Its just the only way to do business on Amazon. If every single company is faking the reviews then you can not afford to be the only one not faking them. That's... the only way to do business selling generic garbage on Amason, I guess. But it's not the only way to do business. I mean, the example is headphones. Bose and Beats and Shure no doubt sell a ton of hardware on Amazon on the basis of their established brands and not just reviews. And I'm sure they do fine, and Amazon is happy to have the business. The problem here is the search results, that searching for "headphones" (which is indeed a particularly bad category) gives you a bunch of garbage and not a good selection of products that match your search.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

areyouseriousxx 8y ago

And historically, this is how societies eventually collapse. When the participants no longer act in the greater good and instead revert to the primal instinct of pure self interest. So I would suggest that it is a "scummy thing to do", since if done by the majority of actors, it results in the collapse of a society.

lowpro 8y ago
I would say societal collapse happens when regulating bodies no longer align participant self-interest with the greater good. Everyone is self-interested, which is why central authorities must step in for things that benefit individuals but hurt society such as tax evasion, pollution, and (maybe one day) fraudulent reviews. Note I'm not saying this is practical to implement or easy to do, just that central authorities exist for this very purpose.
- areyouseriousxx 8y ago
  > Everyone is self-interested Is there a citation I can refer to about this statement? I would argue that laws and regulations are to prevent the very impactful minority of actors that would willfully harm others to benefit themselves.
  - porjo 8y ago
    >> Everyone is self-interested > Is there a citation I can refer to about this statement? 'The Book of Life', page 1
    - isoskeles 8y ago
      First, this is quite condescending. Second, the "self-interest" argument doesn't excuse shitty behavior. It might be in my self-interest to steal my neighbor's wallet he forgot outside. It has money in it! Doesn't make it a good idea nor something I would consider as a "self-interested" person. Plus, it's also in my self-interest not to contribute to lowering the bar of a review system. As someone who uses Amazon and other review sites, I don't like the idea of phony reviews, so even if I worked for a company that "depended" on these reviews, I wouldn't feel good about adding to the problem (nor would I feel good that my employer supposedly needs to rely on falsified reviews).
      - tern 8y ago
        Incidentally, 'The Book of Life', page 1: https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/how-to-love/ https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/how-to-love/

CHsurfer 8y ago

This sounds like Lance Armstrong's description of what lead to his doping scandal. The point is that it's ok to do it because everyone else is, until it isn't ok any more.

andygates 8y ago

It absolutely is scummy. When reviews are bogus, I stop shopping. Plenty of other places to go. They're poisoning the well.

philipov 8y ago

Just because it's the only way to do business doesn't mean it's not a scummy thing to do. Being required for business is not a moral justification for anything!

loco5niner 8y ago

It IS a scummy thing to do. It's just that lots of people are choosing to do the scummy thing.