7 ms·

My last employer sent out a company-wide email asking every employee (and their friends and family) to order their flagship product (IoT device) on Amazon, writ

My last employer sent out a company-wide email asking every employee (and their friends and family) to order their flagship product (IoT device) on Amazon, write a 5-star review and e-mail the marketing department for reimbursement and product return. The returned products would then be re-shipped to Amazon. Needless to say, it was the shortest time I've ever spent at a job.

baroffoos 7y ago
Problem is its not even a scummy thing to do. Its just the only way to do business on Amazon. If every single company is faking the reviews then you can not afford to be the only one not faking them. An individual actor is not able to do the right thing because everyone has to at the same time.
- mikeklaas 7y ago
  It's Moloch.
- jamesrcole 7y ago
  It can be 'the rules of playing the game' AND also scummy. The overall system may be structured such that it basically forces such behavior. Saying it's scummy doesn't mean that this particular seller went out of their way to be scummy or likes acting in that way. But this doesn't stop it being a scummy practice from the consumer's perspective.
- ajross 7y ago
  > Its just the only way to do business on Amazon. If every single company is faking the reviews then you can not afford to be the only one not faking them. That's... the only way to do business selling generic garbage on Amason, I guess. But it's not the only way to do business. I mean, the example is headphones. Bose and Beats and Shure no doubt sell a ton of hardware on Amazon on the basis of their established brands and not just reviews. And I'm sure they do fine, and Amazon is happy to have the business. The problem here is the search results, that searching for "headphones" (which is indeed a particularly bad category) gives you a bunch of garbage and not a good selection of products that match your search.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- areyouseriousxx 7y ago
  And historically, this is how societies eventually collapse. When the participants no longer act in the greater good and instead revert to the primal instinct of pure self interest. So I would suggest that it is a "scummy thing to do", since if done by the majority of actors, it results in the collapse of a society.
  - lowpro 7y ago
    I would say societal collapse happens when regulating bodies no longer align participant self-interest with the greater good. Everyone is self-interested, which is why central authorities must step in for things that benefit individuals but hurt society such as tax evasion, pollution, and (maybe one day) fraudulent reviews. Note I'm not saying this is practical to implement or easy to do, just that central authorities exist for this very purpose.
    - areyouseriousxx 7y ago
      > Everyone is self-interested Is there a citation I can refer to about this statement? I would argue that laws and regulations are to prevent the very impactful minority of actors that would willfully harm others to benefit themselves.
      - porjo 7y ago
        >> Everyone is self-interested > Is there a citation I can refer to about this statement? 'The Book of Life', page 1
        isoskeles 7y ago
        First, this is quite condescending. Second, the "self-interest" argument doesn't excuse shitty behavior. It might be in my self-interest to steal my neighbor's wallet he forgot outside. It has money in it! Doesn't make it a good idea nor something I would consider as a "self-interested" person. Plus, it's also in my self-interest not to contribute to lowering the bar of a review system. As someone who uses Amazon and other review sites, I don't like the idea of phony reviews, so even if I worked for a company that "depended" on these reviews, I wouldn't feel good about adding to the problem (nor would I feel good that my employer supposedly needs to rely on falsified reviews).
- CHsurfer 7y ago
  This sounds like Lance Armstrong's description of what lead to his doping scandal. The point is that it's ok to do it because everyone else is, until it isn't ok any more.
- andygates 7y ago
  It absolutely is scummy. When reviews are bogus, I stop shopping. Plenty of other places to go. They're poisoning the well.
- philipov 7y ago
  Just because it's the only way to do business doesn't mean it's not a scummy thing to do. Being required for business is not a moral justification for anything!
- loco5niner 7y ago
  It IS a scummy thing to do. It's just that lots of people are choosing to do the scummy thing.
Razengan 7y ago
Expose them for this in some way that doesn't lead back to you. As long as companies keep getting away with it, they have no reason to stop. Why should they?
mcbutterbunz 7y ago
A thought just came to my mind. I wonder if Amazon should display the return rate for products. High return rates might make people thing twice about an inflated set of reviews.
- etaioinshrdlu 7y ago
  In this mentioned scheme the products were not apparently returned to Amazon but the manufacturer. Amazon wouldn't know. But in the general case, return rate would be very valuable for all to see... Maybe too valuable for Amazon's liking.

baroffoos 7y ago

Problem is its not even a scummy thing to do. Its just the only way to do business on Amazon. If every single company is faking the reviews then you can not afford to be the only one not faking them. An individual actor is not able to do the right thing because everyone has to at the same time.

mikeklaas 7y ago
It's Moloch.
jamesrcole 7y ago
It can be 'the rules of playing the game' AND also scummy. The overall system may be structured such that it basically forces such behavior. Saying it's scummy doesn't mean that this particular seller went out of their way to be scummy or likes acting in that way. But this doesn't stop it being a scummy practice from the consumer's perspective.
ajross 7y ago
> Its just the only way to do business on Amazon. If every single company is faking the reviews then you can not afford to be the only one not faking them. That's... the only way to do business selling generic garbage on Amason, I guess. But it's not the only way to do business. I mean, the example is headphones. Bose and Beats and Shure no doubt sell a ton of hardware on Amazon on the basis of their established brands and not just reviews. And I'm sure they do fine, and Amazon is happy to have the business. The problem here is the search results, that searching for "headphones" (which is indeed a particularly bad category) gives you a bunch of garbage and not a good selection of products that match your search.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
areyouseriousxx 7y ago
And historically, this is how societies eventually collapse. When the participants no longer act in the greater good and instead revert to the primal instinct of pure self interest. So I would suggest that it is a "scummy thing to do", since if done by the majority of actors, it results in the collapse of a society.
- lowpro 7y ago
  I would say societal collapse happens when regulating bodies no longer align participant self-interest with the greater good. Everyone is self-interested, which is why central authorities must step in for things that benefit individuals but hurt society such as tax evasion, pollution, and (maybe one day) fraudulent reviews. Note I'm not saying this is practical to implement or easy to do, just that central authorities exist for this very purpose.
  - areyouseriousxx 7y ago
    > Everyone is self-interested Is there a citation I can refer to about this statement? I would argue that laws and regulations are to prevent the very impactful minority of actors that would willfully harm others to benefit themselves.
    - porjo 7y ago
      >> Everyone is self-interested > Is there a citation I can refer to about this statement? 'The Book of Life', page 1
      - isoskeles 7y ago
        First, this is quite condescending. Second, the "self-interest" argument doesn't excuse shitty behavior. It might be in my self-interest to steal my neighbor's wallet he forgot outside. It has money in it! Doesn't make it a good idea nor something I would consider as a "self-interested" person. Plus, it's also in my self-interest not to contribute to lowering the bar of a review system. As someone who uses Amazon and other review sites, I don't like the idea of phony reviews, so even if I worked for a company that "depended" on these reviews, I wouldn't feel good about adding to the problem (nor would I feel good that my employer supposedly needs to rely on falsified reviews).
CHsurfer 7y ago
This sounds like Lance Armstrong's description of what lead to his doping scandal. The point is that it's ok to do it because everyone else is, until it isn't ok any more.
andygates 7y ago
It absolutely is scummy. When reviews are bogus, I stop shopping. Plenty of other places to go. They're poisoning the well.
philipov 7y ago
Just because it's the only way to do business doesn't mean it's not a scummy thing to do. Being required for business is not a moral justification for anything!
loco5niner 7y ago
It IS a scummy thing to do. It's just that lots of people are choosing to do the scummy thing.

Razengan 7y ago

Expose them for this in some way that doesn't lead back to you. As long as companies keep getting away with it, they have no reason to stop. Why should they?

mcbutterbunz 7y ago

A thought just came to my mind. I wonder if Amazon should display the return rate for products. High return rates might make people thing twice about an inflated set of reviews.

etaioinshrdlu 7y ago
In this mentioned scheme the products were not apparently returned to Amazon but the manufacturer. Amazon wouldn't know. But in the general case, return rate would be very valuable for all to see... Maybe too valuable for Amazon's liking.