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>996 is fine if you’re a founder Is it? You have production access to the company’s most important relationships. If you’re falling asleep in meetings or just

>996 is fine if you’re a founder Is it? You have production access to the company’s most important relationships. If you’re falling asleep in meetings or just unable to exercise emotional intelligence, that seems pretty bad for the company. EDIT: falling asleep in meetings is bad, not good.

cbsks 8y ago
It is. Because then the overtime is completely self-imposed.
- afarrell 8y ago
  If a sysadmin comes to work drunk, that would also be self-imposed. Would that be acceptable for the company? If not, why is it okay to come to work drunk-with-fatigue?
  - Kirth 8y ago
    I always wonder about cases where a person's work depresses them as such that they start self-medicating (for example, with alcohol). Would that still be self-imposed, or a result of the circumstances?
    - acct1771 8y ago
      We always have a choice. It's just how easy the choice is that defines how good our conditions are.
- sgt101 8y ago
  I'm not an investor, but if I were an investor I would want my stewards of capital to be awake and aware and full on. Airline pilots and professional drivers (truckers) have mandated rest, for a reason.
  - lazyjones 8y ago
    I'm an investor and former VC-backed founder and I'd like my stewards of capital, who are typically the best work force in the early days of startups, to work more than 40 hours. I'm sure that they do in the overwhelming majority of successful startups.
    - afarrell 8y ago
      To what degree? There is a difference between regularly working 50-hour weeks and setting those up well, and always working 72-hour weeks, which doesn’t leave you time to do the life-admin, exercise, cooking, and sleep you need to keep a clear head.
    - stuffedBelly 8y ago
      I work in finance and am sorry but you don't sound like a legit investor if you measure the effectiveness of your capital towards startups by work hours. What about their revenue models, plans for growth, talent structure and market niche? Why do you expect them to work longer hours as long as they have deliverables on time? Also, working longer hours may introduce potential compliance/HR costs (mental/physical problems due to overwork, people leaving due to work-life balance issue), which could be deadly for early startups. > I'm sure that they do in the overwhelming majority of successful startups You would need to back up this statement with evidence and show positive correlation between longer work hours and success of startups.
      - lazyjones 8y ago
        > I work in finance and am sorry but you don't sound like a legit investor I don't care what I sound like to someone who develops software and pretends to be some sort of financial expert.
        stuffedBelly 8y ago
        You can prove me wrong by actually arguing/answering the questions I had but instead you fell into Tu quoque...don't think this is how a healthy argument should be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque > someone who develops software and pretends to be some sort of financial expert Your assumption is baseless and does not help your argument. Commenting on HN does not mean someone develops software for a living. HN is open for everyone.
celticninja 8y ago
Only because it is your choice to undertake the extra working time, not because it is expected.
- brazzy 8y ago
  That doesn't change how much it messes up your performance and judgement.
  - celticninja 8y ago
    I'm not saying it's a good idea just that it's done through choice and not forced in them.
weego 8y ago
I think it's worth defining what "fine" is in this context. It's fine in as much as it's your gig, it's on you to decide what is right or not. If you believe that working extreme hours at the cost of your own wellbeing and rational performance will end up being a benefit to you in the long run then it's "fine" for you to make that choice and you either reap the benefits of suffer the consequences and hopefully learn from it. It's not fine to project your notion of drive and passion onto people who are employees and expect them to match your personal standards when the potential rewards are magnitudes different.
matwood 8y ago
Founders are already 'working' more than that. They are typically thinking about their company with every waking hour. With that said, it doesn't mean they are not getting plenty of sleep. What it means is that when they are not sleeping, they are probably working. At the gym, they are probably thinking about work. At social events, they are probably thinking about work. Etc... It's just the nature of getting a company off the ground.

cbsks 8y ago

It is. Because then the overtime is completely self-imposed.

afarrell 8y ago
If a sysadmin comes to work drunk, that would also be self-imposed. Would that be acceptable for the company? If not, why is it okay to come to work drunk-with-fatigue?
- Kirth 8y ago
  I always wonder about cases where a person's work depresses them as such that they start self-medicating (for example, with alcohol). Would that still be self-imposed, or a result of the circumstances?
  - acct1771 8y ago
    We always have a choice. It's just how easy the choice is that defines how good our conditions are.
sgt101 8y ago
I'm not an investor, but if I were an investor I would want my stewards of capital to be awake and aware and full on. Airline pilots and professional drivers (truckers) have mandated rest, for a reason.
- lazyjones 8y ago
  I'm an investor and former VC-backed founder and I'd like my stewards of capital, who are typically the best work force in the early days of startups, to work more than 40 hours. I'm sure that they do in the overwhelming majority of successful startups.
  - afarrell 8y ago
    To what degree? There is a difference between regularly working 50-hour weeks and setting those up well, and always working 72-hour weeks, which doesn’t leave you time to do the life-admin, exercise, cooking, and sleep you need to keep a clear head.
  - stuffedBelly 8y ago
    I work in finance and am sorry but you don't sound like a legit investor if you measure the effectiveness of your capital towards startups by work hours. What about their revenue models, plans for growth, talent structure and market niche? Why do you expect them to work longer hours as long as they have deliverables on time? Also, working longer hours may introduce potential compliance/HR costs (mental/physical problems due to overwork, people leaving due to work-life balance issue), which could be deadly for early startups. > I'm sure that they do in the overwhelming majority of successful startups You would need to back up this statement with evidence and show positive correlation between longer work hours and success of startups.
    - lazyjones 8y ago
      > I work in finance and am sorry but you don't sound like a legit investor I don't care what I sound like to someone who develops software and pretends to be some sort of financial expert.
      - stuffedBelly 8y ago
        You can prove me wrong by actually arguing/answering the questions I had but instead you fell into Tu quoque...don't think this is how a healthy argument should be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque > someone who develops software and pretends to be some sort of financial expert Your assumption is baseless and does not help your argument. Commenting on HN does not mean someone develops software for a living. HN is open for everyone.

celticninja 8y ago

Only because it is your choice to undertake the extra working time, not because it is expected.

brazzy 8y ago
That doesn't change how much it messes up your performance and judgement.
- celticninja 8y ago
  I'm not saying it's a good idea just that it's done through choice and not forced in them.

weego 8y ago

I think it's worth defining what "fine" is in this context. It's fine in as much as it's your gig, it's on you to decide what is right or not. If you believe that working extreme hours at the cost of your own wellbeing and rational performance will end up being a benefit to you in the long run then it's "fine" for you to make that choice and you either reap the benefits of suffer the consequences and hopefully learn from it. It's not fine to project your notion of drive and passion onto people who are employees and expect them to match your personal standards when the potential rewards are magnitudes different.

matwood 8y ago

Founders are already 'working' more than that. They are typically thinking about their company with every waking hour. With that said, it doesn't mean they are not getting plenty of sleep. What it means is that when they are not sleeping, they are probably working. At the gym, they are probably thinking about work. At social events, they are probably thinking about work. Etc... It's just the nature of getting a company off the ground.