5 ms·

Define low-cost? What sensors are being used in the video?

by hellllllllooo 7y ago

detaro 7y ago
According to the paper, "can be <$5000 if a run of >1500 is made"
- human_scientist 7y ago
  What is the expected lifetime?
- monkmartinez 7y ago
  That seems ridiculously expensive. How much is a Universal Robotics "Co-Bot" or one of Kuka's lower end models?
  - sorryforthethro 7y ago
    Might be wrong, Co-Bots start at $35k and Kukas are custom-built, often get over 6 figures.
  - throwaway287391 7y ago
    It seems to be on the very cheap end if it would qualify as an "industrial robotic arm" (I don't know if it does). I found this paper from 2012 [1] with a list of "Low price industrial robotic arms" (Table 2) and the cheapest one there is $17k. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241632269_A_brief_survey_of_commercial_robotic_arms_for_research_on_manipulation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241632269_A_brief_s...
    - monkmartinez 7y ago
      Not Industrial... "During a 7 unit fabrication run in-house, Bill of Materials (BoM) cost for each arm was tracked at $3328 as shown in Table II. Plastics were printed on Markforged Onyx One and Monoprice MP Select Mini 3D printers. About 75% of our prototype costs were motors and driver boards."
      - detaro 7y ago
        What's not industrial about that quote? That they used 3D printing to prototype? That said, they seem to aim primarily at labs, not factory floors.
  - detaro 7y ago
    Cobots are a multiple of that, and even a lot simpler arms easily go for 10k or more.
  - jonathankoren 7y ago
    The arms in a CafeX are $25k. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/05/08/this-25000-robot-wants-to-put-your-starbucks-barista-out-of-business.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/05/08/this-25000-robot-wants-t...
    - taneq 7y ago
      I was so disappointed when I found out that thing is just a robot arm that takes a cup from a traditional coffee vending machine and puts it in front of the customer window. It seems weird that we don't have a robot system that can make a coffee using a traditional espresso machine.
      - jonathankoren 7y ago
        It's not even a traditional vending machine. It's three super automatic espresso machines, hooked up to probably an arduino or something. A 1970s coffee vending machine would be cheaper.
  - aerophilic 7y ago
    Just to add in, the lowest priced “industrial” arm projected prior to this was the “Franks” robot, where they anticipated to sell them at quantity for about $10k. Note the current development version of that arm is at least 2X that price.
    - monkmartinez 7y ago
      This isn't "industrial"... "During a 7 unit fabrication run in-house, Bill of Materials (BoM) cost for each arm was tracked at $3328 as shown in Table II. Plastics were printed on Markforged Onyx One and Monoprice MP Select Mini 3D printers. About 75% of our prototype costs were motors and driver boards."
  - pauljurczak 7y ago
    No it's not. Try to find another 7 DOF arm with 2 kg payload and similar envelope for less than $5K.
  - leoedin 7y ago
    The startup I work at (Automata) is selling a robot arm for £5k ($6.5k). Getting the price that low took a lot of work and there's definitely mechanical tradeoffs to get there. Robot arms are pretty complicated electromechanical devices with high torque requirements. I suspect one day the manufacture of them will follow a similar path to cars, but until then building them cheaply will be hard. The volumes just aren't high enough yet.
  - contingencies 7y ago
    There are a ton of industrial robot arms available in China in the last few years. Examples: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572669195615 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572669195615 @ USD$3550, https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=588690121022 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=588690121022 @ USD$3850, https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572700770567 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572700770567 @ USD$4100, https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=589952267004 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=589952267004 @ USD$4251, https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=582638257935 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=582638257935 @ USD$10000, etc. Some advertise using imported SMC (Japanese) pneumatic/hydraulic mechanisms. This may not be unrelated to the fact that you can buy a fully detailed product model like https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?526498275889 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?526498275889 or https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=571064427455 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=571064427455 for USD$0.30+.
    - amelius 7y ago
      There is one important difference: article's robot is human-safe.
      - contingencies 7y ago
        Sure but simple presence / proximity type sensors are cheap. As are cameras. Human-safe is then basically a software feature. IMHO the whole 'cobot' media fad and deployments with humans are needlessly complex versus just handing over between dedicated human-only and robot-only motion envelopes. In industrial or small-scale automation settings, useful for a subset of tasks at best. For these special cobot cases, why not use a retrofit kit for third party arms? It makes more sense as would be more loosely coupled with inevitable hardware evolution and provenance. Hell, it'd even work with arbitrary industrial gear. Talk about a large retrofit market. Software people: that's a valid (and high fad-factor!) startup idea. Get some VC and go get 'em.
    - pauljurczak 7y ago
      It may work for Chinese buyers, but it's a tough sell outside of China. What about manuals, software, tech support?
monkmartinez 7y ago
Exactly... There are a lot of open source robot arms on thingiverse and youtube. Some of them are $100 dollar proof of concepts with basic RC servos [1] to full blown awesomeness like the BCN arm [2] with many flavors in between. It would be super cool to get the prices of the control boards down, standardize the software stacks that run these things, and really integrate them into everyday life. For now, I suppose we have to watch a group of people reinvent the ARM every few months. [1]http://www.eezyrobots.it/eba_mk2.html http://www.eezyrobots.it/eba_mk2.html [2] https://www.bcn3dtechnologies.com/en/bcn3d-moveo-the-future-of-learning/ https://www.bcn3dtechnologies.com/en/bcn3d-moveo-the-future-...

Define low-cost? What sensors are being used in the video?

detaro 7y ago

According to the paper, "can be <$5000 if a run of >1500 is made"

human_scientist 7y ago
What is the expected lifetime?
monkmartinez 7y ago
That seems ridiculously expensive. How much is a Universal Robotics "Co-Bot" or one of Kuka's lower end models?
- sorryforthethro 7y ago
  Might be wrong, Co-Bots start at $35k and Kukas are custom-built, often get over 6 figures.
- throwaway287391 7y ago
  It seems to be on the very cheap end if it would qualify as an "industrial robotic arm" (I don't know if it does). I found this paper from 2012 [1] with a list of "Low price industrial robotic arms" (Table 2) and the cheapest one there is $17k. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241632269_A_brief_survey_of_commercial_robotic_arms_for_research_on_manipulation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241632269_A_brief_s...
  - monkmartinez 7y ago
    Not Industrial... "During a 7 unit fabrication run in-house, Bill of Materials (BoM) cost for each arm was tracked at $3328 as shown in Table II. Plastics were printed on Markforged Onyx One and Monoprice MP Select Mini 3D printers. About 75% of our prototype costs were motors and driver boards."
    - detaro 7y ago
      What's not industrial about that quote? That they used 3D printing to prototype? That said, they seem to aim primarily at labs, not factory floors.
- detaro 7y ago
  Cobots are a multiple of that, and even a lot simpler arms easily go for 10k or more.
- jonathankoren 7y ago
  The arms in a CafeX are $25k. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/05/08/this-25000-robot-wants-to-put-your-starbucks-barista-out-of-business.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/05/08/this-25000-robot-wants-t...
  - taneq 7y ago
    I was so disappointed when I found out that thing is just a robot arm that takes a cup from a traditional coffee vending machine and puts it in front of the customer window. It seems weird that we don't have a robot system that can make a coffee using a traditional espresso machine.
    - jonathankoren 7y ago
      It's not even a traditional vending machine. It's three super automatic espresso machines, hooked up to probably an arduino or something. A 1970s coffee vending machine would be cheaper.
- aerophilic 7y ago
  Just to add in, the lowest priced “industrial” arm projected prior to this was the “Franks” robot, where they anticipated to sell them at quantity for about $10k. Note the current development version of that arm is at least 2X that price.
  - monkmartinez 7y ago
    This isn't "industrial"... "During a 7 unit fabrication run in-house, Bill of Materials (BoM) cost for each arm was tracked at $3328 as shown in Table II. Plastics were printed on Markforged Onyx One and Monoprice MP Select Mini 3D printers. About 75% of our prototype costs were motors and driver boards."
- pauljurczak 7y ago
  No it's not. Try to find another 7 DOF arm with 2 kg payload and similar envelope for less than $5K.
- leoedin 7y ago
  The startup I work at (Automata) is selling a robot arm for £5k ($6.5k). Getting the price that low took a lot of work and there's definitely mechanical tradeoffs to get there. Robot arms are pretty complicated electromechanical devices with high torque requirements. I suspect one day the manufacture of them will follow a similar path to cars, but until then building them cheaply will be hard. The volumes just aren't high enough yet.
- contingencies 7y ago
  There are a ton of industrial robot arms available in China in the last few years. Examples: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572669195615 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572669195615 @ USD$3550, https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=588690121022 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=588690121022 @ USD$3850, https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572700770567 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572700770567 @ USD$4100, https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=589952267004 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=589952267004 @ USD$4251, https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=582638257935 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=582638257935 @ USD$10000, etc. Some advertise using imported SMC (Japanese) pneumatic/hydraulic mechanisms. This may not be unrelated to the fact that you can buy a fully detailed product model like https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?526498275889 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?526498275889 or https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=571064427455 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=571064427455 for USD$0.30+.
  - amelius 7y ago
    There is one important difference: article's robot is human-safe.
    - contingencies 7y ago
      Sure but simple presence / proximity type sensors are cheap. As are cameras. Human-safe is then basically a software feature. IMHO the whole 'cobot' media fad and deployments with humans are needlessly complex versus just handing over between dedicated human-only and robot-only motion envelopes. In industrial or small-scale automation settings, useful for a subset of tasks at best. For these special cobot cases, why not use a retrofit kit for third party arms? It makes more sense as would be more loosely coupled with inevitable hardware evolution and provenance. Hell, it'd even work with arbitrary industrial gear. Talk about a large retrofit market. Software people: that's a valid (and high fad-factor!) startup idea. Get some VC and go get 'em.
  - pauljurczak 7y ago
    It may work for Chinese buyers, but it's a tough sell outside of China. What about manuals, software, tech support?

monkmartinez 7y ago

Exactly... There are a lot of open source robot arms on thingiverse and youtube. Some of them are $100 dollar proof of concepts with basic RC servos [1] to full blown awesomeness like the BCN arm [2] with many flavors in between. It would be super cool to get the prices of the control boards down, standardize the software stacks that run these things, and really integrate them into everyday life. For now, I suppose we have to watch a group of people reinvent the ARM every few months. [1]http://www.eezyrobots.it/eba_mk2.html http://www.eezyrobots.it/eba_mk2.html [2] https://www.bcn3dtechnologies.com/en/bcn3d-moveo-the-future-of-learning/ https://www.bcn3dtechnologies.com/en/bcn3d-moveo-the-future-...