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Alright, I'll bite on that. > The United States started a war in Iraq which was essentially just whole sale slaughter for oil. In fact it wasn't. There's zero

Alright, I'll bite on that. > The United States started a war in Iraq which was essentially just whole sale slaughter for oil. In fact it wasn't. There's zero evidence the US went into Iraq for oil. That premise has never once been supported in any strong manner what-so-ever, despite being repeated ad nauseam. The US lost a trillion dollars in Iraq, and suffered thousands of dead and wounded soldiers trying to keep the Iraqis from killing each other in a civil war after the initial invasion. The US didn't take Iraq's oil, it's currently funding their government with near record oil output. The US didn't get all the prime oil contracts afterward, it went to a disparate group of international oil companies including from China. The US didn't get all of Iraq's oil output for its domestic economy, China and India are the top oil export destinations for Iraqi oil. Iraq is a large strategic competitor of the US shale boom, and despite that Iraq is pumping at record levels (instead of the US sabotaging them for example, in the conspiracy theory approach). The US also didn't go into Syria or Libya for oil. There is one credible premise as to why the US went into Iraq. It was publicly stated on record by four star general Wesley Clark, as told to him by Pentagon brass: the US had a plan in place prior to 9/11, to topple Saddam Hussein's regime, then to try to topple Libya and Syria, to strip Russian influence out of the Middle East prior to the full rise of China (at which point the US would have to pivot its attention increasingly to Asia; this is now happening). > The US spies on it's own people through the NSA. The evidence of overt NSA spying on all Americans is a small trickle compared to the universal spying and tracking done by the Chinese Government openly. > The US is the number 1 energy waster and number 1 green house gas producer China produces approximately twice the CO2 emissions of the US and their figures are increasing, whereas the US figures are declining. China is aggressively building out more coal plants, while the US is decreasing its use of coal considerably. That's all despite China not having a much larger manufacturing sector and the US having an economy nearly 50% larger. > China dictatorship allows for an entire high speed rail network to be built across the country in less than a decade The Chinese dictatorship isn't what allows for that. Japan, France, and other nations have built top notch high-speed networks entirely without a dictatorship. > China dictatorship allows the government to set aggressive targets for green house gas emissions without big business getting in the way. China is aggressively increasing its greenhouse gas emissions, and is already the world leader in greenhouse gas emissions. Setting fake targets is meaningless. They're doing everything except for attempting to reduce their emissions. > But they aren't much different in the US in terms of evil and atrocities. False. There are almost no human rights in China. That includes the lack of: freedom of press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech & expression, freedom of basically any form of anti-government demonstration. There are also very few actual property rights in China. > In the coming years based on current trends china will become the economic super power of the world surpassing the US and Europe in almost every area. Entirely unsupported claim. According to 1993 trends, Japan was going to become the largest economy in the world inevitably. They were going to outmatch everybody else in all regards because they were supposedly superior as a culture and ethnically (that was the nationalist propaganda at the time). China filled in the vast slack in their formerly hyper impoverished and unproductive economy, based on their population size (and supply of cheap labor). Then the easy growth ran out in ~2009-2011, so they turned to accumulating tens of trillions of dollars of debt in record time. Then that approach failed, now their economy is persistently weakening while the central government tries to keep it from tipping over (asset bubble juggling, permanent vast stimulus, etc). > Caucasians have always been the dominant race when associating modern technological society and race. They built the western world. The coming rise of china will put Asians on the top of the list. It's not racism Empty statement, purely subjective opinion. China's rise isn't coming, it's already over (thus the flood of extreme debt to keep things propped up, which is always a late stage of development desperation move). There's no reason to think that China's past rise, will somehow magically elevate a given race to the top of anything. > Worst case scenario the US might declare war on china with a cover story You really went off the rails there. > China will be the economic powerhouse of the world There's nothing to support that claim. As it stands, China looks set to stagnate for decades under the weight of a middle income trap, demographic implosion of contracting workers and population, a productivity collapse which has already happened, and a mountain of debt of historic proportions that will sap their growth and investment potential perpetually as it did with Japan while their demographics fall out from under them simultaneously and welfare costs skyrocket for the aging population. To cap that all off, China under Xi has recently moved away from the very successful opening and liberalization program championed by Deng. There's no evidence yet that Xi's dictatorship approach - still in the very early years - will do anything long-term other than regress China backwards, both socially and economically. That is the historically typical outcome of a shift to a repressive dictatorship model. China's boom was caused by and riding on the Deng liberalizations, which have now mostly been revoked. An entirely new system has been put into place, the results of that change are yet unknown. I know where I'd place my bets based on every other result in modern history.

polotics 8y ago
What a way to end a thread! Not fair, I was looking forward to more naive Han Jingoism!
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
crimsonalucard 8y ago
I'll bite back. >In fact it wasn't. There's zero evidence the US went into Iraq for oil. If by evidence you mean recorded a former halliburton CEO saying for the record that he manipulated Bush into going to war so that Corporations in the USA can profit highly from the Iraq war then obviously there is no evidence. 99% of the corruption in both China and the US has no evidence. It's just OBVIOUS. In fact they made a movie about it this former CEO of haliburton. It's called VICE. Guess what happens in that movie? >The evidence of overt NSA spying on all Americans is a small trickle compared to the universal spying and tracking done by the Chinese Government openly. Yeah the chinese government does it openly. They tell you why it's done. In the US it's a crime, and the US decides to do it behind your back. >China produces approximately twice the CO2 emissions of the US and their figures are increasing, whereas the US figures are declining. China is aggressively building out more coal plants, while the US is decreasing its use of coal considerably. That's all despite China not having a much larger manufacturing sector and the US having an economy nearly 50% larger. The US is the greatest producer of greenhouse gases. 100%. Your figure is coming from a really naive and incredulous way of measuring greenhouse gases. By looking at the TOTAL amount of greenhouse gases when you need to look PER CAPITA. Per person every person in the US produces more greenhouse gas than any other person in the world. China looks bad because it has a massive population. The numbers you gave are either a deliberate manipulation of stats or a total inept mistake on your part. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_countries_by_carbon_diox... I was off by two for the US, the middle east is high due to the Kuwaiti oil field fires during the war which was a war for oil triggered by guess who. >Japan, France, and other nations have built top notch high-speed networks entirely without a dictatorship. How can you even compare this? China built it in less than a decade. That means most people on this site are OLDER than that the entire high speed rail system that spans a giant country. Japan and France are tiny tiny countries and it took japan a little less than a century to build out the network to what is now (and that's just tokyo). Pic for clarity: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Tokyo_subway https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Tokyo_subway This type of infrastructure is only possible to be built at this level of speed by a central authority. Individual rights be damned for the rights of humanity, I'm going to build a rail through your house and pay you to move because this will help society overall. In the US it's the rights' of the individual, humanity be damned. >Setting fake targets is meaningless. They're doing everything except for attempting to reduce their emissions. This is a pure and utter lie. This is not a fake target. It is very real. Every country is growing in CO2 emissions every year. China is taking drastic steps to stop this increase by creating initiatives that HURT business. The US is less likely to do this because the it is controlled by big business. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/19/china-aims-to-drastically-cut-greenhouse-gas-emissions-through-trading-scheme https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/19/china-ai... Look at that article. That change is drastic in terms of restrictions. It has huge implications and only a centralized government is capable of enforcing such a scheme. >False. There are almost no human rights in China. That includes the lack of: freedom of press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech & expression, freedom of basically any form of anti-government demonstration. There are also very few actual property rights in China. Don't make me laugh. No property right? See this: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Chinese_property_law https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Chinese_property_law You have an extensive set of laws that give you property rights. Your individual rights of course will never extend past human rights. Freedom of religion: IS this really an atrocity? Falun Gong is like scientology in china. The US government can't kill cults like this the way china can. It's a fine line here, and not necessarily a benefit. Freedom of speech and expression: Yes this is the price of living under a centralize government. Like I said every government has many many flaws. This is one of china's flaws. China is not flawless and here's some flaws about the US: https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrociti... Tons of stuff. This country is not a utopia compared with China. Here's the thing about the propaganda cloud in the US vs China. In the US it comes under the guise of freedom of press. Yes the press in the US has the right to spread propaganda and get paid for it. See Fox news. The difference is in China they know it's all propaganda. >Empty statement, purely subjective opinion. China's rise isn't coming, it's already over (thus the flood of extreme debt to keep things propped up, which is always a late stage of development desperation move). There's no reason to think that China's past rise, will somehow magically elevate a given race to the top of anything. No race is better than another race, but stereotypes exist. I am saying the stereotypes will shift. Western white people have long seen subjectively by the MAJORITY of other races as stereotypically more rich, successful and well off. These opinions will begin to equalize and even reverse. Get it? This comes with a country made up of another race becoming more powerful than caucasian countries which have dominated the world for centuries. >Entirely unsupported claim. According to 1993 trends, Japan was going to become the largest economy in the world inevitably. They were going to outmatch everybody else in all regards because they were supposedly superior as a culture and ethnically (that was the nationalist propaganda at the time). China filled in the vast slack in their formerly hyper impoverished and unproductive economy, based on their population size (and supply of cheap labor). Then the easy growth ran out in ~2009-2011, so they turned to accumulating tens of trillions of dollars of debt in record time. Then that approach failed, now their economy is persistently weakening while the central government tries to keep it from tipping over (asset bubble juggling, permanent vast stimulus, etc). It is still rising despite all the issues surrounding it. Bubbles galore, debt and all the typical problems an economy has are just some issues it faces but it does not unseat China from being a super power. All experts agree that China is poised to surpass the US very soon. Some even predict next year: https://futurism.com/the-byte/china-india-us-economy https://futurism.com/the-byte/china-india-us-economy. The US has had it's fair share of depressions, housing crises and economic pitfalls. Doesn't change the nature of the economy as whole. Every metric, every expert everyone who studies this stuff says the same thing. China will dominate. Yes there are major imperfections within the Chinese economy just like how there are imperfections in the US economy. Even an entire city of empty buildings in China is just a blip. It doesn't change the overall trend.

polotics 8y ago

What a way to end a thread! Not fair, I was looking forward to more naive Han Jingoism!

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

crimsonalucard 8y ago

I'll bite back. >In fact it wasn't. There's zero evidence the US went into Iraq for oil. If by evidence you mean recorded a former halliburton CEO saying for the record that he manipulated Bush into going to war so that Corporations in the USA can profit highly from the Iraq war then obviously there is no evidence. 99% of the corruption in both China and the US has no evidence. It's just OBVIOUS. In fact they made a movie about it this former CEO of haliburton. It's called VICE. Guess what happens in that movie? >The evidence of overt NSA spying on all Americans is a small trickle compared to the universal spying and tracking done by the Chinese Government openly. Yeah the chinese government does it openly. They tell you why it's done. In the US it's a crime, and the US decides to do it behind your back. >China produces approximately twice the CO2 emissions of the US and their figures are increasing, whereas the US figures are declining. China is aggressively building out more coal plants, while the US is decreasing its use of coal considerably. That's all despite China not having a much larger manufacturing sector and the US having an economy nearly 50% larger. The US is the greatest producer of greenhouse gases. 100%. Your figure is coming from a really naive and incredulous way of measuring greenhouse gases. By looking at the TOTAL amount of greenhouse gases when you need to look PER CAPITA. Per person every person in the US produces more greenhouse gas than any other person in the world. China looks bad because it has a massive population. The numbers you gave are either a deliberate manipulation of stats or a total inept mistake on your part. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_countries_by_carbon_diox... I was off by two for the US, the middle east is high due to the Kuwaiti oil field fires during the war which was a war for oil triggered by guess who. >Japan, France, and other nations have built top notch high-speed networks entirely without a dictatorship. How can you even compare this? China built it in less than a decade. That means most people on this site are OLDER than that the entire high speed rail system that spans a giant country. Japan and France are tiny tiny countries and it took japan a little less than a century to build out the network to what is now (and that's just tokyo). Pic for clarity: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Tokyo_subway https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Tokyo_subway This type of infrastructure is only possible to be built at this level of speed by a central authority. Individual rights be damned for the rights of humanity, I'm going to build a rail through your house and pay you to move because this will help society overall. In the US it's the rights' of the individual, humanity be damned. >Setting fake targets is meaningless. They're doing everything except for attempting to reduce their emissions. This is a pure and utter lie. This is not a fake target. It is very real. Every country is growing in CO2 emissions every year. China is taking drastic steps to stop this increase by creating initiatives that HURT business. The US is less likely to do this because the it is controlled by big business. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/19/china-aims-to-drastically-cut-greenhouse-gas-emissions-through-trading-scheme https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/19/china-ai... Look at that article. That change is drastic in terms of restrictions. It has huge implications and only a centralized government is capable of enforcing such a scheme. >False. There are almost no human rights in China. That includes the lack of: freedom of press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech & expression, freedom of basically any form of anti-government demonstration. There are also very few actual property rights in China. Don't make me laugh. No property right? See this: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Chinese_property_law https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Chinese_property_law You have an extensive set of laws that give you property rights. Your individual rights of course will never extend past human rights. Freedom of religion: IS this really an atrocity? Falun Gong is like scientology in china. The US government can't kill cults like this the way china can. It's a fine line here, and not necessarily a benefit. Freedom of speech and expression: Yes this is the price of living under a centralize government. Like I said every government has many many flaws. This is one of china's flaws. China is not flawless and here's some flaws about the US: https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrociti... Tons of stuff. This country is not a utopia compared with China. Here's the thing about the propaganda cloud in the US vs China. In the US it comes under the guise of freedom of press. Yes the press in the US has the right to spread propaganda and get paid for it. See Fox news. The difference is in China they know it's all propaganda. >Empty statement, purely subjective opinion. China's rise isn't coming, it's already over (thus the flood of extreme debt to keep things propped up, which is always a late stage of development desperation move). There's no reason to think that China's past rise, will somehow magically elevate a given race to the top of anything. No race is better than another race, but stereotypes exist. I am saying the stereotypes will shift. Western white people have long seen subjectively by the MAJORITY of other races as stereotypically more rich, successful and well off. These opinions will begin to equalize and even reverse. Get it? This comes with a country made up of another race becoming more powerful than caucasian countries which have dominated the world for centuries. >Entirely unsupported claim. According to 1993 trends, Japan was going to become the largest economy in the world inevitably. They were going to outmatch everybody else in all regards because they were supposedly superior as a culture and ethnically (that was the nationalist propaganda at the time). China filled in the vast slack in their formerly hyper impoverished and unproductive economy, based on their population size (and supply of cheap labor). Then the easy growth ran out in ~2009-2011, so they turned to accumulating tens of trillions of dollars of debt in record time. Then that approach failed, now their economy is persistently weakening while the central government tries to keep it from tipping over (asset bubble juggling, permanent vast stimulus, etc). It is still rising despite all the issues surrounding it. Bubbles galore, debt and all the typical problems an economy has are just some issues it faces but it does not unseat China from being a super power. All experts agree that China is poised to surpass the US very soon. Some even predict next year: https://futurism.com/the-byte/china-india-us-economy https://futurism.com/the-byte/china-india-us-economy. The US has had it's fair share of depressions, housing crises and economic pitfalls. Doesn't change the nature of the economy as whole. Every metric, every expert everyone who studies this stuff says the same thing. China will dominate. Yes there are major imperfections within the Chinese economy just like how there are imperfections in the US economy. Even an entire city of empty buildings in China is just a blip. It doesn't change the overall trend.