6 ms·

AI Podcast: Elon Musk on Tesla Autopilot [video]

51 points by espeed 8y ago

tim333 8y ago
Musk sounding confident about their self driving as usual. >I'll be shocked if it's not next year at the latest that having having a human intervene will decrease safety (22:32) Like how we got rid of elevator operators because automatic is safer. >with a full self-driving car computer the rate of improvement is exponential (24:26) >Tesla is vastly ahead of everyone (30:11)
- Animats 8y ago
  I'll be shocked if it's not next year at the latest that having having a human intervene will decrease safety (22:32) For certain interpretations of "intervene", that's true now. See this video of a Tesla hitting a construction barrier.[1] This is a dashcam view from a car behind the Tesla. At 00:21, it's too early for the vehicle to start turning, and at 00:22, the vehicle has already hit the barrier. The driver has to detect the failure and then take over. Much of the driver's allowed reaction time is taken up by having to wait until it's almost too late. Control handoff inherently implies a slower reaction time than manual driving. (Not noticing the lane change warning and orange construction 45MPH speed limit sign back at 00:05 didn't help, either.) This is the problem with shared control, and why Waymo rejected it early on. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2ml6sjk_8c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2ml6sjk_8c
  - throwaway149999 8y ago
    That looked bad. It kept inside the lane right up to the moment when it hit the barrier and the way it stayed perfectly in the center of the lane really makes it look like it was on autopilot. (By the way, the driver with the dashcam is driving terribly.)
camjohnson26 8y ago
Full self driving by next year and yet accidents caused by autopilot are still common. Tesla says that you should keep your hands on the wheel at all times and stay vigilant, but Musk appears on TV demoing autopilot with his hands off the wheel and retweets videos of others doing the same. Three people have died using autopilot, 2 when their cars drove underneath a truck that the radar failed to pickup, and the Apple engineer who drove his car into a guardrail while under the influence of autopilot. Telsa is going to continue pumping their technology until the investor day coming up on April 19 because they desperately need a capital raise. They announced closing stores, layoffs, price cuts, and the short-lived 35,000 model 3 because cash is tight and demand was way down in Q1. Q2 is looking like more of the same. The worst part of this whole thing to me is Musk's blatant disregard for human life to protect the value of his company. 3 people have died because of autopilot and pumping this unfinished technology will lead to more deaths. https://twitter.com/shabudibudi/status/1116514629268705280 https://twitter.com/shabudibudi/status/1116514629268705280 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTMnnECBSo&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTMnnECBSo&feature=youtu.be https://streamable.com/kpugc https://streamable.com/kpugc https://twitter.com/NetflixAndLamp/status/1114527009743437824 https://twitter.com/NetflixAndLamp/status/111452700974343782...
- ben_w 8y ago
  In 2017, the USA had 37,133 motor vehicle fatalities, at a rate of 11.6 per billion vehicle miles driven. I’m having difficulty finding a recent figure for how many miles Tesla autopilot has driven, but they reached over 1.2 billion by July last year. 3 deaths is 3 too many, of course, but it’s also 10.9 less than one should expect for 1.2 billion miles driven.
  - Animats 8y ago
    The number of Tesla-related deaths is much higher than Tesla reports.[1] At least 4 in California, at least 11 worldwide. That article points out how low the death rate for large luxury cars is, too. Tesla is at about 4x the death rate for the luxury car industry. [1] https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-rate-is-more-than-triple-that-of-luxury-cars-and-likely-even-higher-433670ddde17 https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-r...
    - tim333 8y ago
      That article is fairly damning.
      - cle 8y ago
        I’m not convinced yet (and neither am I convinced of Tesla’s claims). You can’t make strong causal claims from observational studies. Run a real experiment and I’ll take these claims more seriously. (For example, there are a ton of potential confounding variables that could be causing the difference other than the safety of the car, like demographic differences.) The burden of proof is on the claimant, whether it’s Tesla claiming their vehicles are safe or skeptics claiming they’re not. Until then, neither adds much to the discourse.
        hellllllllooo 8y ago
        Until the onus is on Tesla to prove their claims, rather than cherry picking statistics for marketing, it's better to be sceptical of what they say about safety of an unproven emerging technology that they are emphasizing to sell more cars. Basically, Tesla needs to prove that this reasonable analysis is wrong because they are the people making the claims about safety. They really shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt. The burden of proof is on the company selling a system to control a two ton vehicle travelling over 70mph.
Animats 8y ago
Softball interview. Musk is still fixated on "What is a car" and "What is not a car". (At [28:12]). Teslas keep hitting things that are "not a car", yet clearly aren't driveable road. Musk doesn't have to evade that issue because the interviewer never brings it up. Actual paper.[1] Which is actually an analysis of the data from [2]. [1] https://hcai.mit.edu/tesla-autopilot-human-side.pdf https://hcai.mit.edu/tesla-autopilot-human-side.pdf [2] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1711.06976.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1711.06976.pdf
- AndrewBissell 8y ago
  Fridman has posted images of himself wielding a Boring Company flamethrower, and blocked an AI expert who asked him to submit his recent Autopilot study for peer review. If he's not actually being paid under the table by Musk/Tesla, it's clear he's at the very least a fanboy who hopes to burnish his image by association with Musk.
  - djanogo 8y ago
    Getting "paid under the table" might too much of an accusation, but Musk usually only accepts interviews from people who like him.
  - oska 8y ago
    You received a warning a month ago about your account being a single-issue one (anti-Tesla/Musk). [1] And yet the majority of your comments since then have continued to be under Tesla submissions and here you are again, making libelous statements against a respected AI researcher simply because he interviewed Elon Musk. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19381462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19381462
    - Animats 8y ago
      I'm more into self-driving, which I used to work on, than Tesla. I'm also critical of Uber, Cruise, and some of the minor players. Basically, all the guys who think you just tie machine learning to some cameras and train. Self-driving is fundamentally unsafe unless you do a height profile of the road ahead. That's step one. Right now, LIDAR-based systems can do that reliably, while camera-based systems cannot. If you have to recognize obstacles to avoid them, sometimes you'll miss one. Once you know where you physically can drive, you get to work on where you should drive. And what the other road users are doing. The proper role of machine learning here is to help classify other road users and predict their behavior. "Big rise or drop in road ahead" plus "classifier has no idea what this is" has to mean "Stop".
MarkMarine 8y ago
Autopilot drives far safer than I do, my mind wanders on a 1 hour commute. I know the gaps, on 101 where they just moved the lanes and used stickers for markers, autopilot doesn’t handle it well. But I feel WAY safer with it on. It’s pretty amazing, and it’s light-years better than other car manufacturers’ offerings. Try the Volvo self driving and then compare, that thing tried to kill me multiple times in a single weekend drive.
- rightbyte 8y ago
  Volvo doesn't have self driving as a cunsumer offer. Or have I missed something?
  - MarkMarine 8y ago
    You missed the Volvo S90
- mannykannot 8y ago
  Point taken: the safety of such systems should be compared to how people actually drive, not as if everyone was driving with all due attention. The most important concern is whether other people are safer when you are using autopilot than when you are not. Part of that calculation is how bad the accidents are when they happen. There is also the question of whether safety overall would be better with a combination of lesser technologies, such as lane departure warning and automated emergency braking, than either full autopilot or unassisted manual driving. Every manufacturer should be evaluated in the same way, and if Tesla is currently the best, then congratulations to them, but that does not mean autopilot is good enough yet, and what we need right now is more data objectively evaluated, not Musk's tendentious claims.
  - MarkMarine 8y ago
    Driving with autopilot every day, I bet we are 5-10 years off the full self driving panacea that Musk is selling, but I don’t care. The car is blazing fast, safer than I am on my daily commute, and I don’t feel the pang of regret from hitting a gas pump. I don’t buy into Musk’s bluster blindly, but he does accomplish most of what he says he will... just not on the time scale he promised. Seems fine to me though, I like what he promised and honestly I don’t care if my car appreciates, the automatic braking videos sold me.
synaesthesisx 8y ago
I'm skeptical of Musk's claim that Teslas are an "appreciating asset". That doesn't make sense in the automotive world, and it's claims like this that make him lose credibility.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- screye 8y ago
  It is pretty disingenuous on his part. The small set of cars whose selling price does appreciate satisfy a set of requirements which the Tesla doesn't. 1. Discontinued / Very few produced -> Tesla is ramping up production 2. Iconic design -> Teslas do not have stand out look and the same design language is being used for other Tesla vehicles too. 3. Movie / cult classic -> Tesla does not have its 'Back to the Future' or 'Fast and the Furious'. 4. Unique features not present in other cars-> Tesla doesn't necessarily have any Lastly, tablet and screen based designs are ones that age the worst. So, Tesla is at a disadvantage there. The car collector's market is completely at odds with what Tesla offers. Tesla lovers are high technology folk, who always want the latest and the greatest. They do not appreciate dated designs. Car collectors are the ones most averse to electric cars (as of now). I think Teslas will hold their price better than other brands, but they certainly won't appreciate. (may be the original roadster, because they made so few of them)
- anbop 8y ago
  Musk doesn’t have any “oracle” credibility to squander though. He’s known for many absurd utterances from his SEC violations to his pedophile accusations. The words coming out of his mouth are not given high credence by the investor class.
- whoisjuan 8y ago
  Well, it sounds pretty disingenuous, but you can still find some meaning out of that. An asset by definition is a useful/valuable thing or person. If Teslas become better just with OTA updates, then they become more useful and valuable for the person that owns them. Of course, financially speaking it doesn't make sense (they will depreciate like any other car that rack up miles), but I see some merit in that statement since no other vehicle in the market currently can get better just with the past of time (as you get new updates). I don't know if his statement was about the financial depreciation of a Tesla or not, but if in 6 months, my car is better than it is today, with no custom parts or additions, you can undoubtedly claim that its value (the perception of what the car is doing for me) increased. Though, not its financial value.
AndrewBissell 8y ago
The part in this interview where Elon Musk asserts that Teslas are "an appreciating asset, not a depreciating asset" is just hilarious, classic Musk. Even he, an accomplished liar, can't help staring up and to the left when he says it. https://twitter.com/whistlerian1834/status/1116861707098263552?s=19 https://twitter.com/whistlerian1834/status/11168617070982635...
- djanogo 8y ago
  I don't blame him, he needs to increase the value of inventory at hand for next quarter results, making Autopilot standard for extra $2k makes results look better.
- ericb 8y ago
  Interesting comment history made up 95% of Tesla fud and an admission you are short Tesla. Could you find elsewhere to post propaganda for your short position?
- johnsimer 8y ago
  According to the below link there is not a correlation between eye movements and lying https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.livescience.com/34068-eye-movements-lying.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.livescience.com/34068-eye-m...
cyann 8y ago
QOTD: "What's outside the simulation?"
- HNLurker2 8y ago
  If Elon would be the lucky ones along with Yudkowsky, Ruy etc.. to stand near the AI in the box then I guess his question would be answered
CPLX 8y ago
The thing that Elon is doing is called lying. https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13341100/tesla-self-driving-autonomous-road-trip-la-nyc https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13341100/tesla-self-driv... https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/823727035088416768?s=21 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/823727035088416768?s=21 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888053175155949572?s=21 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888053175155949572?s=21 And so on...
jellicle 8y ago
It continues to be amazing that he isn't in jail for securities fraud.
kadendogthing 8y ago
Anyone who's done anything sufficiently advanced with computer vision, AI, and cars knows that Musk is full of shit. The things he is promising are at least a decade away. Not 1 year. To put it another way, we're in "staging." We haven't hit production yet. If there's ever enough Tesla's on the road, you're going to start seeing a lot of problems with Tesla's "autopilot." Honestly the cars are fantastic enough without people overstating what autopilot can do. Furthermore he's been funny with his companies' finances. Between Tesla, Solar City (remember when Tesla bought Solar City, because I do), and the fact that SpaceX needed NASA to bail them out with the falcon heavy should tell you all you need to know about how solid his companies' finances are. Tesla as a company, the forefront of Musk's empire (arguably), is showing signs of business turbulence. Layoffs, benefit slashing, etc. Now, I don't think he's really tried to scam to anyone, sincerely. He's a businessman who's bit off a bit more than he can chew in the science department in my opinion.
- ec109685 8y ago
  > Anyone who's done anything sufficiently advanced with computer vision, AI, and cars knows that Musk is full of shit. The things he is promising are at least a decade away. Citation needed.
  - Fricken 8y ago
    I would like to know the name of the secret genius working at autopilot who knows something the rest of the self-driving industry doesn't. If Tesla does well with HW3 they'll be able to get Autopilot into 'flashy demo' territory in the not-too-distant-future and that will have the Tesla fans thumping their chests for years to come before it dawns on them that there is actually is a massive gap between going a few miles in traffic and pulling off a couple fancy maneuvers along the way, and a car that can navigate a city safely without a human driver. Nobody knows how wide that gap actually is. Progress in free-range robotics is inverse exponential, and by that I mean that to drive the error rate down by an order of magnitude, you need to do way more work than was needed to achieve the previous order of magnitude. We can come back to this in 7 years or so and re-examine just how far off Tesla may be from 'The Tesla Network'. Although I suppose the Tesla Network can just be renting somebody else's Tesla for an afternoon, FSD not necessary, and in that case, any day, right?
Chris_Chambers 8y ago
Elon should be executed before he kills more people with his stupidity. This would also set a good example for the other morons with the audacity to think they can force the rest of us to share the road with dysfunctional inhuman drivers that don’t fear death. If I ever see a Tesla on autopilot, I will not hesitate to run it off the road on principle.
sabareesh 8y ago
I smell only fear here. I am not sure how many people have tried tesla autopilot, I have owned model 3 for a year and the rate of improvement, features on AP is crazy. I thought hackernews is a place where you can discuss about the technology but here it seems just blatant bias and no thought full conversation.
hellllllllooo 8y ago
"The rate of improvement is exponential" - Elon Musk on the state of improvement in self driving during this conversation. This is literally the opposite of what is true. The rate of improvement has slowed down as the low hanging problems have been addressed. Everyone has pushed their timelines out. It's pretty bad that a research scientist at MIT didn't call him out on this. What's the point in someone who works in the field conducting interviews if he doesn't question the interviewee.

51 points by espeed 8y ago

Musk sounding confident about their self driving as usual. >I'll be shocked if it's not next year at the latest that having having a human intervene will decrease safety (22:32) Like how we got rid of elevator operators because automatic is safer. >with a full self-driving car computer the rate of improvement is exponential (24:26) >Tesla is vastly ahead of everyone (30:11)

Animats 8y ago
I'll be shocked if it's not next year at the latest that having having a human intervene will decrease safety (22:32) For certain interpretations of "intervene", that's true now. See this video of a Tesla hitting a construction barrier.[1] This is a dashcam view from a car behind the Tesla. At 00:21, it's too early for the vehicle to start turning, and at 00:22, the vehicle has already hit the barrier. The driver has to detect the failure and then take over. Much of the driver's allowed reaction time is taken up by having to wait until it's almost too late. Control handoff inherently implies a slower reaction time than manual driving. (Not noticing the lane change warning and orange construction 45MPH speed limit sign back at 00:05 didn't help, either.) This is the problem with shared control, and why Waymo rejected it early on. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2ml6sjk_8c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2ml6sjk_8c
- throwaway149999 8y ago
  That looked bad. It kept inside the lane right up to the moment when it hit the barrier and the way it stayed perfectly in the center of the lane really makes it look like it was on autopilot. (By the way, the driver with the dashcam is driving terribly.)

camjohnson26 8y ago

Full self driving by next year and yet accidents caused by autopilot are still common. Tesla says that you should keep your hands on the wheel at all times and stay vigilant, but Musk appears on TV demoing autopilot with his hands off the wheel and retweets videos of others doing the same. Three people have died using autopilot, 2 when their cars drove underneath a truck that the radar failed to pickup, and the Apple engineer who drove his car into a guardrail while under the influence of autopilot. Telsa is going to continue pumping their technology until the investor day coming up on April 19 because they desperately need a capital raise. They announced closing stores, layoffs, price cuts, and the short-lived 35,000 model 3 because cash is tight and demand was way down in Q1. Q2 is looking like more of the same. The worst part of this whole thing to me is Musk's blatant disregard for human life to protect the value of his company. 3 people have died because of autopilot and pumping this unfinished technology will lead to more deaths. https://twitter.com/shabudibudi/status/1116514629268705280 https://twitter.com/shabudibudi/status/1116514629268705280 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTMnnECBSo&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTMnnECBSo&feature=youtu.be https://streamable.com/kpugc https://streamable.com/kpugc https://twitter.com/NetflixAndLamp/status/1114527009743437824 https://twitter.com/NetflixAndLamp/status/111452700974343782...

ben_w 8y ago
In 2017, the USA had 37,133 motor vehicle fatalities, at a rate of 11.6 per billion vehicle miles driven. I’m having difficulty finding a recent figure for how many miles Tesla autopilot has driven, but they reached over 1.2 billion by July last year. 3 deaths is 3 too many, of course, but it’s also 10.9 less than one should expect for 1.2 billion miles driven.
- Animats 8y ago
  The number of Tesla-related deaths is much higher than Tesla reports.[1] At least 4 in California, at least 11 worldwide. That article points out how low the death rate for large luxury cars is, too. Tesla is at about 4x the death rate for the luxury car industry. [1] https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-rate-is-more-than-triple-that-of-luxury-cars-and-likely-even-higher-433670ddde17 https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-r...
  - tim333 8y ago
    That article is fairly damning.
    - cle 8y ago
      I’m not convinced yet (and neither am I convinced of Tesla’s claims). You can’t make strong causal claims from observational studies. Run a real experiment and I’ll take these claims more seriously. (For example, there are a ton of potential confounding variables that could be causing the difference other than the safety of the car, like demographic differences.) The burden of proof is on the claimant, whether it’s Tesla claiming their vehicles are safe or skeptics claiming they’re not. Until then, neither adds much to the discourse.
      - hellllllllooo 8y ago
        Until the onus is on Tesla to prove their claims, rather than cherry picking statistics for marketing, it's better to be sceptical of what they say about safety of an unproven emerging technology that they are emphasizing to sell more cars. Basically, Tesla needs to prove that this reasonable analysis is wrong because they are the people making the claims about safety. They really shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt. The burden of proof is on the company selling a system to control a two ton vehicle travelling over 70mph.

Animats 8y ago

Softball interview. Musk is still fixated on "What is a car" and "What is not a car". (At [28:12]). Teslas keep hitting things that are "not a car", yet clearly aren't driveable road. Musk doesn't have to evade that issue because the interviewer never brings it up. Actual paper.[1] Which is actually an analysis of the data from [2]. [1] https://hcai.mit.edu/tesla-autopilot-human-side.pdf https://hcai.mit.edu/tesla-autopilot-human-side.pdf [2] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1711.06976.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1711.06976.pdf

AndrewBissell 8y ago
Fridman has posted images of himself wielding a Boring Company flamethrower, and blocked an AI expert who asked him to submit his recent Autopilot study for peer review. If he's not actually being paid under the table by Musk/Tesla, it's clear he's at the very least a fanboy who hopes to burnish his image by association with Musk.
- djanogo 8y ago
  Getting "paid under the table" might too much of an accusation, but Musk usually only accepts interviews from people who like him.
- oska 8y ago
  You received a warning a month ago about your account being a single-issue one (anti-Tesla/Musk). [1] And yet the majority of your comments since then have continued to be under Tesla submissions and here you are again, making libelous statements against a respected AI researcher simply because he interviewed Elon Musk. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19381462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19381462
  - Animats 8y ago
    I'm more into self-driving, which I used to work on, than Tesla. I'm also critical of Uber, Cruise, and some of the minor players. Basically, all the guys who think you just tie machine learning to some cameras and train. Self-driving is fundamentally unsafe unless you do a height profile of the road ahead. That's step one. Right now, LIDAR-based systems can do that reliably, while camera-based systems cannot. If you have to recognize obstacles to avoid them, sometimes you'll miss one. Once you know where you physically can drive, you get to work on where you should drive. And what the other road users are doing. The proper role of machine learning here is to help classify other road users and predict their behavior. "Big rise or drop in road ahead" plus "classifier has no idea what this is" has to mean "Stop".

MarkMarine 8y ago

Autopilot drives far safer than I do, my mind wanders on a 1 hour commute. I know the gaps, on 101 where they just moved the lanes and used stickers for markers, autopilot doesn’t handle it well. But I feel WAY safer with it on. It’s pretty amazing, and it’s light-years better than other car manufacturers’ offerings. Try the Volvo self driving and then compare, that thing tried to kill me multiple times in a single weekend drive.

rightbyte 8y ago
Volvo doesn't have self driving as a cunsumer offer. Or have I missed something?
- MarkMarine 8y ago
  You missed the Volvo S90
mannykannot 8y ago
Point taken: the safety of such systems should be compared to how people actually drive, not as if everyone was driving with all due attention. The most important concern is whether other people are safer when you are using autopilot than when you are not. Part of that calculation is how bad the accidents are when they happen. There is also the question of whether safety overall would be better with a combination of lesser technologies, such as lane departure warning and automated emergency braking, than either full autopilot or unassisted manual driving. Every manufacturer should be evaluated in the same way, and if Tesla is currently the best, then congratulations to them, but that does not mean autopilot is good enough yet, and what we need right now is more data objectively evaluated, not Musk's tendentious claims.
- MarkMarine 8y ago
  Driving with autopilot every day, I bet we are 5-10 years off the full self driving panacea that Musk is selling, but I don’t care. The car is blazing fast, safer than I am on my daily commute, and I don’t feel the pang of regret from hitting a gas pump. I don’t buy into Musk’s bluster blindly, but he does accomplish most of what he says he will... just not on the time scale he promised. Seems fine to me though, I like what he promised and honestly I don’t care if my car appreciates, the automatic braking videos sold me.

synaesthesisx 8y ago

I'm skeptical of Musk's claim that Teslas are an "appreciating asset". That doesn't make sense in the automotive world, and it's claims like this that make him lose credibility.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
screye 8y ago
It is pretty disingenuous on his part. The small set of cars whose selling price does appreciate satisfy a set of requirements which the Tesla doesn't. 1. Discontinued / Very few produced -> Tesla is ramping up production 2. Iconic design -> Teslas do not have stand out look and the same design language is being used for other Tesla vehicles too. 3. Movie / cult classic -> Tesla does not have its 'Back to the Future' or 'Fast and the Furious'. 4. Unique features not present in other cars-> Tesla doesn't necessarily have any Lastly, tablet and screen based designs are ones that age the worst. So, Tesla is at a disadvantage there. The car collector's market is completely at odds with what Tesla offers. Tesla lovers are high technology folk, who always want the latest and the greatest. They do not appreciate dated designs. Car collectors are the ones most averse to electric cars (as of now). I think Teslas will hold their price better than other brands, but they certainly won't appreciate. (may be the original roadster, because they made so few of them)
anbop 8y ago
Musk doesn’t have any “oracle” credibility to squander though. He’s known for many absurd utterances from his SEC violations to his pedophile accusations. The words coming out of his mouth are not given high credence by the investor class.
whoisjuan 8y ago
Well, it sounds pretty disingenuous, but you can still find some meaning out of that. An asset by definition is a useful/valuable thing or person. If Teslas become better just with OTA updates, then they become more useful and valuable for the person that owns them. Of course, financially speaking it doesn't make sense (they will depreciate like any other car that rack up miles), but I see some merit in that statement since no other vehicle in the market currently can get better just with the past of time (as you get new updates). I don't know if his statement was about the financial depreciation of a Tesla or not, but if in 6 months, my car is better than it is today, with no custom parts or additions, you can undoubtedly claim that its value (the perception of what the car is doing for me) increased. Though, not its financial value.

AndrewBissell 8y ago

The part in this interview where Elon Musk asserts that Teslas are "an appreciating asset, not a depreciating asset" is just hilarious, classic Musk. Even he, an accomplished liar, can't help staring up and to the left when he says it. https://twitter.com/whistlerian1834/status/1116861707098263552?s=19 https://twitter.com/whistlerian1834/status/11168617070982635...

djanogo 8y ago
I don't blame him, he needs to increase the value of inventory at hand for next quarter results, making Autopilot standard for extra $2k makes results look better.
ericb 8y ago
Interesting comment history made up 95% of Tesla fud and an admission you are short Tesla. Could you find elsewhere to post propaganda for your short position?
johnsimer 8y ago
According to the below link there is not a correlation between eye movements and lying https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.livescience.com/34068-eye-movements-lying.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.livescience.com/34068-eye-m...

cyann 8y ago

QOTD: "What's outside the simulation?"

HNLurker2 8y ago
If Elon would be the lucky ones along with Yudkowsky, Ruy etc.. to stand near the AI in the box then I guess his question would be answered

CPLX 8y ago

The thing that Elon is doing is called lying. https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13341100/tesla-self-driving-autonomous-road-trip-la-nyc https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13341100/tesla-self-driv... https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/823727035088416768?s=21 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/823727035088416768?s=21 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888053175155949572?s=21 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888053175155949572?s=21 And so on...

jellicle 8y ago

It continues to be amazing that he isn't in jail for securities fraud.

kadendogthing 8y ago

Anyone who's done anything sufficiently advanced with computer vision, AI, and cars knows that Musk is full of shit. The things he is promising are at least a decade away. Not 1 year. To put it another way, we're in "staging." We haven't hit production yet. If there's ever enough Tesla's on the road, you're going to start seeing a lot of problems with Tesla's "autopilot." Honestly the cars are fantastic enough without people overstating what autopilot can do. Furthermore he's been funny with his companies' finances. Between Tesla, Solar City (remember when Tesla bought Solar City, because I do), and the fact that SpaceX needed NASA to bail them out with the falcon heavy should tell you all you need to know about how solid his companies' finances are. Tesla as a company, the forefront of Musk's empire (arguably), is showing signs of business turbulence. Layoffs, benefit slashing, etc. Now, I don't think he's really tried to scam to anyone, sincerely. He's a businessman who's bit off a bit more than he can chew in the science department in my opinion.

ec109685 8y ago
> Anyone who's done anything sufficiently advanced with computer vision, AI, and cars knows that Musk is full of shit. The things he is promising are at least a decade away. Citation needed.
- Fricken 8y ago
  I would like to know the name of the secret genius working at autopilot who knows something the rest of the self-driving industry doesn't. If Tesla does well with HW3 they'll be able to get Autopilot into 'flashy demo' territory in the not-too-distant-future and that will have the Tesla fans thumping their chests for years to come before it dawns on them that there is actually is a massive gap between going a few miles in traffic and pulling off a couple fancy maneuvers along the way, and a car that can navigate a city safely without a human driver. Nobody knows how wide that gap actually is. Progress in free-range robotics is inverse exponential, and by that I mean that to drive the error rate down by an order of magnitude, you need to do way more work than was needed to achieve the previous order of magnitude. We can come back to this in 7 years or so and re-examine just how far off Tesla may be from 'The Tesla Network'. Although I suppose the Tesla Network can just be renting somebody else's Tesla for an afternoon, FSD not necessary, and in that case, any day, right?

Chris_Chambers 8y ago

Elon should be executed before he kills more people with his stupidity. This would also set a good example for the other morons with the audacity to think they can force the rest of us to share the road with dysfunctional inhuman drivers that don’t fear death. If I ever see a Tesla on autopilot, I will not hesitate to run it off the road on principle.

sabareesh 8y ago

I smell only fear here. I am not sure how many people have tried tesla autopilot, I have owned model 3 for a year and the rate of improvement, features on AP is crazy. I thought hackernews is a place where you can discuss about the technology but here it seems just blatant bias and no thought full conversation.

hellllllllooo 8y ago

"The rate of improvement is exponential" - Elon Musk on the state of improvement in self driving during this conversation. This is literally the opposite of what is true. The rate of improvement has slowed down as the low hanging problems have been addressed. Everyone has pushed their timelines out. It's pretty bad that a research scientist at MIT didn't call him out on this. What's the point in someone who works in the field conducting interviews if he doesn't question the interviewee.