4 ms·

Forget about industrial espionage. They're now buying the loyalty of other countries, turning them into vassal states. EU countries aren't safe either, see Gre

by blub 8y ago

Forget about industrial espionage. They're now buying the loyalty of other countries, turning them into vassal states. EU countries aren't safe either, see Greece and Italy.

remarkEon 8y ago
Interesting thought. Might partially explain why Germany balked at the US request for banning Huwei phones from 5G. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/21/future-of-5g-us-allies-defy-washingtons-please-to-ban-huawei.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/21/future-of-5g-us-allies-d...
- Stranger43 8y ago
  One of the things completely written out of the us press record of state hacking is that way before the US was concerned about china Germany made credible accusations against the NSA for conducting industrial espionage in Germany. And when you then remember the project Gladio revelations of the early 90ies/late 80ies and the fact that the last of America's house trained nazi's(the Gehlen organization) would have retired from west Germany influence and you get the idea that the modern German intelligence services consider some parts of the US intelligence network to have become "captured" by non-democratic interests, something the french realized doing the campaign by the OAS against DeGaule in the 60ies when DeGaule suspected that the CIA was not exactly his ally in trying to stamp out right wing coup mongers from inside the french army. And while all of this have been published by mainstream academics and journalists it's completely left out of any narrative about America's place in the world put forward by the "mainstream"(as in approved by the establishment) American press today when discussing America's place in a post cold war mercantilist conflict against countries that are not taking orders from Washington, nor buying more from the US then they sell to the US. The problem here is of cause if you consider American authorities to be captured by an mercantilist elite waging an commercial conflict on everyone else the way America accuse the Chinese of doing then the obvious thing is to ban American and Chinese tech from your networks as neither can be considered reliable partners and to be honest an better argument can be made that America with it's rising domestic problem and declining economy is the party more likely to pull the trigger and cause problems for the European economy by utilizing backdoors for harm, then for China doing the same from a position of economic growth.
- luckylion 8y ago
  To Germany, it's either being spied on by the US or by China. There's no "we won't be spied on"-choice, it's only about how much they'll pay for the tech that might be used to spy on them. Banning Huawei makes no sense at all from that perspective.
mikejb 8y ago
> They're now buying the loyalty of other countries, turning them into vassal states. This isn't a new strategy. I think the main difference in perception in this case is that it's not us doing it.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  "us" being "USA"?
  - mikejb 8y ago
    Amongst others, yes.
    - NicoJuicy 8y ago
      They have stepped up without a concience. Loaning money for Goodwill has always been something. But loaning money, doing the work with your own employees, suggesting infrastructure that they can hardly afford ( and definitely not maintain), burying the country in debt is something new. Oh yeah, in the contract ofc, they suggest what can be done if they can't pay back ofc. = Give infrastructure, natural resources and land
      - mikejb 8y ago
        >But loaning money, doing the work with your own employees, suggesting infrastructure that they can hardly afford ( and definitely not maintain), burying the country in debt is something new. Is it? Having your own companies build infrastructure in foreign lands for your own (trade or war) benefits, and dumping the costs of build and maintenance on the region doesn't sound like a 21st century invention - it sounds like a common strategy of powerful nations.
        NicoJuicy 8y ago
        Yes, it is. An architect works with local contractors for convenience. China needs it's 6% growth and is hustling all other possible countries for it with the "one road, one belt" excuse

by blub 8y ago

Forget about industrial espionage. They're now buying the loyalty of other countries, turning them into vassal states. EU countries aren't safe either, see Greece and Italy.

remarkEon 8y ago

Interesting thought. Might partially explain why Germany balked at the US request for banning Huwei phones from 5G. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/21/future-of-5g-us-allies-defy-washingtons-please-to-ban-huawei.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/21/future-of-5g-us-allies-d...

Stranger43 8y ago
One of the things completely written out of the us press record of state hacking is that way before the US was concerned about china Germany made credible accusations against the NSA for conducting industrial espionage in Germany. And when you then remember the project Gladio revelations of the early 90ies/late 80ies and the fact that the last of America's house trained nazi's(the Gehlen organization) would have retired from west Germany influence and you get the idea that the modern German intelligence services consider some parts of the US intelligence network to have become "captured" by non-democratic interests, something the french realized doing the campaign by the OAS against DeGaule in the 60ies when DeGaule suspected that the CIA was not exactly his ally in trying to stamp out right wing coup mongers from inside the french army. And while all of this have been published by mainstream academics and journalists it's completely left out of any narrative about America's place in the world put forward by the "mainstream"(as in approved by the establishment) American press today when discussing America's place in a post cold war mercantilist conflict against countries that are not taking orders from Washington, nor buying more from the US then they sell to the US. The problem here is of cause if you consider American authorities to be captured by an mercantilist elite waging an commercial conflict on everyone else the way America accuse the Chinese of doing then the obvious thing is to ban American and Chinese tech from your networks as neither can be considered reliable partners and to be honest an better argument can be made that America with it's rising domestic problem and declining economy is the party more likely to pull the trigger and cause problems for the European economy by utilizing backdoors for harm, then for China doing the same from a position of economic growth.
luckylion 8y ago
To Germany, it's either being spied on by the US or by China. There's no "we won't be spied on"-choice, it's only about how much they'll pay for the tech that might be used to spy on them. Banning Huawei makes no sense at all from that perspective.

mikejb 8y ago

> They're now buying the loyalty of other countries, turning them into vassal states. This isn't a new strategy. I think the main difference in perception in this case is that it's not us doing it.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
"us" being "USA"?
- mikejb 8y ago
  Amongst others, yes.
  - NicoJuicy 8y ago
    They have stepped up without a concience. Loaning money for Goodwill has always been something. But loaning money, doing the work with your own employees, suggesting infrastructure that they can hardly afford ( and definitely not maintain), burying the country in debt is something new. Oh yeah, in the contract ofc, they suggest what can be done if they can't pay back ofc. = Give infrastructure, natural resources and land
    - mikejb 8y ago
      >But loaning money, doing the work with your own employees, suggesting infrastructure that they can hardly afford ( and definitely not maintain), burying the country in debt is something new. Is it? Having your own companies build infrastructure in foreign lands for your own (trade or war) benefits, and dumping the costs of build and maintenance on the region doesn't sound like a 21st century invention - it sounds like a common strategy of powerful nations.
      - NicoJuicy 8y ago
        Yes, it is. An architect works with local contractors for convenience. China needs it's 6% growth and is hustling all other possible countries for it with the "one road, one belt" excuse