4 ms·

> And most people, a.k.a. "you," are probably not even willing to do that. I'll be honest - right now, I fall into that camp. I enjoy driving. I enjoy my vehic

by cr0sh 8y ago

> And most people, a.k.a. "you," are probably not even willing to do that. I'll be honest - right now, I fall into that camp. I enjoy driving. I enjoy my vehicles, both on and off the road. Probably not the right answer, but as you noted, even if I and everyone else stopped - it's too late. It was probably too late back when I was a child, and didn't even know how to drive. But let's say I were willing. How am I to get to my job? I live in Phoenix, Arizona - where in the summertime, midnight temperatures can easily break 100 degrees F; yes, it is literally possible here to fry an egg on the sidewalk during the daytime in the summer (you can use a slow cooker inside your car, too! multipurpose vehicles!). I live approximately 30 minutes away from my work. Walking is out of the question. I could potentially bike to work - but my work doesn't have showers, nor are there any places nearby enough to shower and then ride to work (without needing to shower again). This of course assumes I won't die of heatstroke (but let's say I'm fit enough to avoid that). You could say "well, you need to live closer to your work" - this would be great - if there were any homes nearby my work, which there really isn't. It's inside an industrial park area, that surrounds a municipal airport - not much in the way of houses; maybe some apartments (in very seedy areas, mind you - this area used to be a truckstop not too many years ago, and there are plenty of holdovers from that time). Then comes the question of how to transport all of my crap from my house to this new (fictional) home, without having my own vehicle (and, since we've all stopped using them - well, not sure what you do then). I suppose telecommuting might be an option - maybe in such a scenario as "no car for you...or you...or you" employers would go for that more? Not all jobs of course could do that... I guess what I'm getting at is that here in the United States, for the most part outside of some very singular municipal areas - most people simply cannot easily do without a vehicle of some sort, whether for personal transportation, or to transport others. Whatever ultimately happens, we're all probably going to be painfully forced into it. We won't have a choice, it likely won't be gradual. Imagery from Brin's Earth comes to mind. In the end, we all very well might have to "leave everything parked" and simply walk away. I don't think it's going to be pretty.

CydeWeys 8y ago
Just get an electric car? What's so hard about your situation?
sandworm101 8y ago
I'm in much the same camp. I'm in the military. So I live only a few miles from work and have plenty of shower/locker facilities. I could very easily ride a bike. I sometimes walk to work. But I don't have the luxury of a regular workday. Sometimes I need to get to work NOW, an asap situation. Sometimes I work 16-hour days and any time waiting for public transport means less time sleeping. Sometimes I have to bring 100lbs of stuff with me. I just cannot see how any sort of public transport would ever be practical. An electric car would probably work for me on a daily basis, but I also have family to visit that are 500+ km away (in woods, no trains/bus options). Somtimes I have to go to training events at locations many hundreds of KM away. I cannot afford to own two vehicles. So until EVs can do both daily commutes and long weekend road trips, my one car will remains IC.
- mjevans 8y ago
  The situation might be different if there were an absolute standard on battery packs and there were quick swap stations where a pack could be replaced in the time it presently takes to fill up; by a completely automated system. In that environment the storage cells would end up being leased, probably by a third party that sets up a contract among the stations and end users (ok several for competition). It might work out; but it just isn't anywhere near as simple as dispensing 20 gallons of toxic, volatile, extremely flammable material.
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    >> toxic, volatile, extremely flammable material. It doesn't have to be those things. Diesel isn't volatile, or even very flammable compared to other bits of your car. Toxic depends on perspective. Don't drink the stuff, but it is possible to source diesel from renewable sources. Zero-carbon doesn't necessarily mean not burning fuels in an engine. There are zero-carbon fuel cycles, even fuel made from atmospheric carbon.
  - avip 8y ago
    That was the BetterPlace model [0]. All is left are several deserted battery-change stations across Israel [1]. I think the fact this model failed miserably in the tiniest of countries is telling. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company) [1] https://images.haarets.co.il/image/fetch/w_544,q_auto,c_fill,f_auto/fl_any_format.preserve_transparency.progressive:none/https://www.themarker.com/polopoly_fs/1.3605020.1485941462!/image/3489816699.jpg https://images.haarets.co.il/image/fetch/w_544,q_auto,c_fill...
megaremote 8y ago
> But let's say I were willing. How am I to get to my job? This is the level we are at. We are dealing with children who can't even figure out simple stuff, like how to live without a car. It is impossible to them. They have no idea how to live in the world without cars. Ridiculous. I have never owned a car. Somehow I have survived.
- goatlover 8y ago
  That's good of you, but it that wouldn't scale to everyone without crashing the economy.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- THE_PUN_STOPS 8y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart
  - nitrogen 8y ago
    The "children" comment may have been out of line, but this type of response only makes the thread worse.
- geggam 8y ago
  I challenge you to come live where I do without a car. Come during the summer. When the average temp gets over 105 and your body simply doesnt cool itself guess what happens to that long walk you want to do ?
clouddrover 8y ago
> I could potentially bike to work - but my work doesn't have showers You could perhaps use an electric bicycle, electric moped, or a 1+1 two-seater like a Renault Twizy: https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/twizy.html https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/twizy.html All cheaper options than a full sized electric car and still pretty practical to get around in.
- geggam 8y ago
  Hydrogen burning ICE is really the only viable solution for a country as big as the US. I am not sure people understand how undeveloped the US is. 2nd best option IMO would be hemp oil diesel. While not the best on emissions the fuel would offset carbon during production. Neither option will be able to defeat the oil industry Battery storage is too inefficient to do at scale but a battery in every home with solar panel roofs and intelligent grids would do quite a bit to offset issues. Again the companies would fight and prevent this... in fact they are fighting solar successfully even in states like AZ
  - nradov 8y ago
    Where do you expect to get that hydrogen? Electrolysis is too inefficient to be economically practical. Currently most hydrogen is produced from fossil fuels, which rather defeats the purpose.

by cr0sh 8y ago

CydeWeys 8y ago

Just get an electric car? What's so hard about your situation?

sandworm101 8y ago

I'm in much the same camp. I'm in the military. So I live only a few miles from work and have plenty of shower/locker facilities. I could very easily ride a bike. I sometimes walk to work. But I don't have the luxury of a regular workday. Sometimes I need to get to work NOW, an asap situation. Sometimes I work 16-hour days and any time waiting for public transport means less time sleeping. Sometimes I have to bring 100lbs of stuff with me. I just cannot see how any sort of public transport would ever be practical. An electric car would probably work for me on a daily basis, but I also have family to visit that are 500+ km away (in woods, no trains/bus options). Somtimes I have to go to training events at locations many hundreds of KM away. I cannot afford to own two vehicles. So until EVs can do both daily commutes and long weekend road trips, my one car will remains IC.

mjevans 8y ago
The situation might be different if there were an absolute standard on battery packs and there were quick swap stations where a pack could be replaced in the time it presently takes to fill up; by a completely automated system. In that environment the storage cells would end up being leased, probably by a third party that sets up a contract among the stations and end users (ok several for competition). It might work out; but it just isn't anywhere near as simple as dispensing 20 gallons of toxic, volatile, extremely flammable material.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  >> toxic, volatile, extremely flammable material. It doesn't have to be those things. Diesel isn't volatile, or even very flammable compared to other bits of your car. Toxic depends on perspective. Don't drink the stuff, but it is possible to source diesel from renewable sources. Zero-carbon doesn't necessarily mean not burning fuels in an engine. There are zero-carbon fuel cycles, even fuel made from atmospheric carbon.
- avip 8y ago
  That was the BetterPlace model [0]. All is left are several deserted battery-change stations across Israel [1]. I think the fact this model failed miserably in the tiniest of countries is telling. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company) [1] https://images.haarets.co.il/image/fetch/w_544,q_auto,c_fill,f_auto/fl_any_format.preserve_transparency.progressive:none/https://www.themarker.com/polopoly_fs/1.3605020.1485941462!/image/3489816699.jpg https://images.haarets.co.il/image/fetch/w_544,q_auto,c_fill...

megaremote 8y ago

> But let's say I were willing. How am I to get to my job? This is the level we are at. We are dealing with children who can't even figure out simple stuff, like how to live without a car. It is impossible to them. They have no idea how to live in the world without cars. Ridiculous. I have never owned a car. Somehow I have survived.

goatlover 8y ago
That's good of you, but it that wouldn't scale to everyone without crashing the economy.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
THE_PUN_STOPS 8y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart
- nitrogen 8y ago
  The "children" comment may have been out of line, but this type of response only makes the thread worse.
geggam 8y ago
I challenge you to come live where I do without a car. Come during the summer. When the average temp gets over 105 and your body simply doesnt cool itself guess what happens to that long walk you want to do ?

clouddrover 8y ago

> I could potentially bike to work - but my work doesn't have showers You could perhaps use an electric bicycle, electric moped, or a 1+1 two-seater like a Renault Twizy: https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/twizy.html https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/twizy.html All cheaper options than a full sized electric car and still pretty practical to get around in.

geggam 8y ago
Hydrogen burning ICE is really the only viable solution for a country as big as the US. I am not sure people understand how undeveloped the US is. 2nd best option IMO would be hemp oil diesel. While not the best on emissions the fuel would offset carbon during production. Neither option will be able to defeat the oil industry Battery storage is too inefficient to do at scale but a battery in every home with solar panel roofs and intelligent grids would do quite a bit to offset issues. Again the companies would fight and prevent this... in fact they are fighting solar successfully even in states like AZ
- nradov 8y ago
  Where do you expect to get that hydrogen? Electrolysis is too inefficient to be economically practical. Currently most hydrogen is produced from fossil fuels, which rather defeats the purpose.