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This is disappointingly true. You'd think we would have come up with better answers. I'm constantly looking for ways to better manage bug tracking, todo lists,

This is disappointingly true. You'd think we would have come up with better answers. I'm constantly looking for ways to better manage bug tracking, todo lists, and even managing job searches and professional networking, because I'm still not really happy with anything I've found. As I bounce back and forth between different tools, I always land back on just using Excel or Google Sheets. I'm never entirely happy with those either, but I find that they're no worse at the job than the dedicated tools.

a_wild_dandan 8y ago
And importantly, you know Excel/Sheets well probably. Other tools start at a major disadvantage in that they're competing with a tool you're familiar with. That's a powerful adversary.
- munchbunny 8y ago
  I would place my knowledge of Excel/Sheets at the level you'd expect from a typical programmer - I don't know the keyboard shortcuts, but I know how to make pivot tables and write formulas. My main issue is that the specialized tools always impose some sort of opinion on how ____ should work that is close to mine but different in impactful ways. Case in point, JIRA. With how infinitely customizable the columns are, it might as well be a spreadsheet with links to email threads. That's selling JIRA short on how much the UX tries to do for you, but I'm intentionally making a point about how much overhead there is in paperwork generated by the fact that you're using JIRA. When I compare how much paperwork JIRA saves me vs. how much paperwork JIRA generates, I often find, even as a PM, that I come out behind. As a developer, I pretty much never feel like I'm coming out ahead on time. I don't mean to pick on JIRA specifically because every bug tracker I've used has this problem, but JIRA was the tool I had to use for work for the longest time, so I wanted to stick to what I experienced firsthand.
dalbasal 8y ago
I kind of smile at it, fwiw. It's a sort of tribute to users-know-best and a "I made it so I understand it" mentality. Spreadsheets are a rare example where people make their own tools in a modern work environment, where most tools are highly politicised. For me, I'd like to see spreadsheets improve at the tasks they're doing, not hand over to some cookie-cut app procured by management.
- patcon 8y ago
  to close the loop: https://twitter.com/patconnolly/status/1116722347849977856 https://twitter.com/patconnolly/status/1116722347849977856 re: spreadsheets and recursive publics ;)
Nurw 8y ago
Have you given notion a try? It sort of feels like one of those tools that are so general they can actually compete with spreadsheets and emails and simple lists. And pretty user-friendly to boot. I have started using it for more and more simple lists and other personal stuff.
- rabidrat 8y ago
  I just looked at notion, and it's unfortunately not general enough to warrant making a version that works on a non-mobile device. I'll check it out when I can use a version on my desktop (or at least on the web).
  - Veen 8y ago
    Notion has MacOS and Windows versions: https://www.notion.so/desktop https://www.notion.so/desktop
- munchbunny 8y ago
  I have, I like the product and I agree about the user-friendliness, but it doesn't quite do it for me. Actually, I should phrase it a different way. For me, Notion competes with OneNote, and for my personal use they're somewhat comparable. Notion doesn't take the spot of Excel/Sheets in my toolkit because Excel/Sheets can be gradually automated out of initially fuzzy requirements.

a_wild_dandan 8y ago

And importantly, you know Excel/Sheets well probably. Other tools start at a major disadvantage in that they're competing with a tool you're familiar with. That's a powerful adversary.

munchbunny 8y ago
I would place my knowledge of Excel/Sheets at the level you'd expect from a typical programmer - I don't know the keyboard shortcuts, but I know how to make pivot tables and write formulas. My main issue is that the specialized tools always impose some sort of opinion on how ____ should work that is close to mine but different in impactful ways. Case in point, JIRA. With how infinitely customizable the columns are, it might as well be a spreadsheet with links to email threads. That's selling JIRA short on how much the UX tries to do for you, but I'm intentionally making a point about how much overhead there is in paperwork generated by the fact that you're using JIRA. When I compare how much paperwork JIRA saves me vs. how much paperwork JIRA generates, I often find, even as a PM, that I come out behind. As a developer, I pretty much never feel like I'm coming out ahead on time. I don't mean to pick on JIRA specifically because every bug tracker I've used has this problem, but JIRA was the tool I had to use for work for the longest time, so I wanted to stick to what I experienced firsthand.

dalbasal 8y ago

I kind of smile at it, fwiw. It's a sort of tribute to users-know-best and a "I made it so I understand it" mentality. Spreadsheets are a rare example where people make their own tools in a modern work environment, where most tools are highly politicised. For me, I'd like to see spreadsheets improve at the tasks they're doing, not hand over to some cookie-cut app procured by management.

patcon 8y ago
to close the loop: https://twitter.com/patconnolly/status/1116722347849977856 https://twitter.com/patconnolly/status/1116722347849977856 re: spreadsheets and recursive publics ;)

Nurw 8y ago

Have you given notion a try? It sort of feels like one of those tools that are so general they can actually compete with spreadsheets and emails and simple lists. And pretty user-friendly to boot. I have started using it for more and more simple lists and other personal stuff.

rabidrat 8y ago
I just looked at notion, and it's unfortunately not general enough to warrant making a version that works on a non-mobile device. I'll check it out when I can use a version on my desktop (or at least on the web).
- Veen 8y ago
  Notion has MacOS and Windows versions: https://www.notion.so/desktop https://www.notion.so/desktop
munchbunny 8y ago
I have, I like the product and I agree about the user-friendliness, but it doesn't quite do it for me. Actually, I should phrase it a different way. For me, Notion competes with OneNote, and for my personal use they're somewhat comparable. Notion doesn't take the spot of Excel/Sheets in my toolkit because Excel/Sheets can be gradually automated out of initially fuzzy requirements.