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“Group chat is like being in an all-day meeting with random participants and no agenda.” That. So true.

by rohtul 7y ago

vishnu_ks 7y ago
Try Zulip. All meetings have an agenda! https://imgur.com/UMBuOuh https://imgur.com/UMBuOuh Long Version: In Zulip, each and every conversation in a channel has a topic. So for catching up one don't have to go through all messages in a channel. Instead just go through the topic names and open the topics only you are interested in catching up. Since each conversation can have a topic you can reply back to conversations even after days as well as can have multiple productive conversations in one channel at same time! https://zulipchat.com/why-zulip/ https://zulipchat.com/why-zulip/
- thecatspaw 7y ago
  Or continue using slack, but correctly. We dont have offtopic in ours. We do have a #random chat, but its very infrequently used. Instead of zulips revolutionary tags, just use the slack threads. Zulip wont save you if you're drowning in Slack messages.
  - vishnu_ks 7y ago
    Zulip does save you from drowning in messages! Instead of going through all the messages, one just have to go through Topics and consume messages only from topics they are interested in. This is so much efficient compared to a chat system without topics :)
    - thecatspaw 7y ago
      Slack also has channels.
      - vishnu_ks 7y ago
        Topics are not the same as channels. In Zulip each conversation in a channel would have a topic. A channel would be a collection of topics. You can ignore the topics you are not interested in and focus on topics that are relevant. So for catching up all you need to do is go through the topics in a channel instead of going through all the messages. https://imgur.com/UMBuOuh https://imgur.com/UMBuOuh
        thecatspaw 7y ago
        Just the same as I can ignore threads in Slack which I have no interest in. Its not the tool which break communication, its people not following rules. If people follow the "Use threads at all times" rule, slack is totally working fine. If people dont use it as their social media platform or keep their random thoughts to #random, there's no problem. It feels a bit tone-deaf to promote your tool in a thread about unproductivity caused by chat tools.
        vishnu_ks 7y ago
        > It feels a bit tone-deaf to promote your tool in a thread about unproductivity caused by chat tools. The entire article was written to promote their tool Nuclino. >> All of our team's work (including the writing of this article) happens in Nuclino, and even though it's a real-time collaboration tool, most of it happens asynchronously. Without the expectations of an immediate response, our team is free to focus on our work, reconnecting later to respond. I don't see any reason why one can't suggest an alternative product that solves the issues of synchronous chat apps just like the one mentioned in the Article. Zulip is an asynchronous tool just like Nuclino. > Its not the tool which break communication, its people not following rules. If people follow the "Use threads at all times" rule, slack is totally working fine. Eaxctly! People don't follow rules. Thats why Slack threads are hardly useful. On the other hand in Zulip people always create a new topic for a new conversation since that's how the tool is designed!
        RHSeeger 7y ago
        In my experience, Slack threads are absolutely horrible. I tend to miss that there's discussion on a thread for hours because it's almost "out of band" to the rest of the communication.
    - indigodaddy 7y ago
      What's the difference between a Zulip topic and a Slack channel? Are topics inside a channel?
      - vishnu_ks 7y ago
        Yup. Zulip has channels just like Slack. A channel is comprised of topics. When someone want to start a conversation they create a new topic. If they want to just join an existing conversation they reply back to the existing topic. You can see a live demo by visiting our community server at https://chat.zulip.org/ https://chat.zulip.org/
        indigodaddy 7y ago
        Thanks! I guess I should have bothered to read your other reply but didn't notice it :)
  - johnvaluk 7y ago
    We use Slack in a similar manner and the signal to noise ratio is extremely high. Some of our channels are key components of workflows. It's extremely easy to seek help or share information like links or code snippets. We're also very responsive, since it's always running on our workstations, laptops and phones. We'd probably frown on anyone treating it like a social media platform, though we do use it to let off steam once in a while.
goguy 7y ago
Yup, I just don't participate. I miss out on some things but it's worth it for avoiding the distraction IMO. If anyone needs me they can email, Skype or god forbid speak to me in person.
IshKebab 7y ago
Except for the fact that you don't have to be there.
- jsight 7y ago
  Yeah, and if someone really does need your input on something they'll pull you in for a few minutes. Or many minutes. But this isn't a bad thing.
Frost1x 7y ago
This is exactly why I don't use it. It's pretty much treated as synchronous communication. Sure, you can step away and ignore dialog for awhile to concentrate and do work, but people expect you to read back through what you missed and don't want to repeat discussions. A few people tried to push it on my team when it started growing in popularity and immediately I noticed how much of a time sink it was. No thank you, I have enough hurdles to delivery, I don't need additional artificial hurdles I have some say in.
jasonlotito 7y ago
I don't get it. Do people open up slack, and then sit there, staring at Slack? Sitting in a group chat, looking at everything that happens, reading everything that happens? I'm honestly curious. Do you watch other people get work done? Maybe in yours, people just chat about weird things all the time? I just don't get it. Slack just sits there in the dock, and I don't need to keep the window open to have it remain useful. Maybe someone can shed some light on how "Group chat is like being in an all-day meeting?" I honestly don't get it.
- Tempest1981 7y ago
  I think it's a voyeuristic tendency of some people to watch other people work. You can join a few dozen Slack channels, and peek in on them constantly, similar to twitter or reddit. Maybe a desire to find drama? Vs focus on your own "boring" problem. The funny thing is, it can make you feel productive!
  - jasonlotito 7y ago
    If that's true, then it's in no way Slack that is the problem. I can't help but think there has to be something more.
    - Tempest1981 7y ago
      Slack is an enabler, making it easier. Same as any social media.

“Group chat is like being in an all-day meeting with random participants and no agenda.” That. So true.

by rohtul 7y ago

“Group chat is like being in an all-day meeting with random participants and no agenda.” That. So true.

Try Zulip. All meetings have an agenda! https://imgur.com/UMBuOuh https://imgur.com/UMBuOuh Long Version: In Zulip, each and every conversation in a channel has a topic. So for catching up one don't have to go through all messages in a channel. Instead just go through the topic names and open the topics only you are interested in catching up. Since each conversation can have a topic you can reply back to conversations even after days as well as can have multiple productive conversations in one channel at same time! https://zulipchat.com/why-zulip/ https://zulipchat.com/why-zulip/

thecatspaw 7y ago
Or continue using slack, but correctly. We dont have offtopic in ours. We do have a #random chat, but its very infrequently used. Instead of zulips revolutionary tags, just use the slack threads. Zulip wont save you if you're drowning in Slack messages.
- vishnu_ks 7y ago
  Zulip does save you from drowning in messages! Instead of going through all the messages, one just have to go through Topics and consume messages only from topics they are interested in. This is so much efficient compared to a chat system without topics :)
  - thecatspaw 7y ago
    Slack also has channels.
    - vishnu_ks 7y ago
      Topics are not the same as channels. In Zulip each conversation in a channel would have a topic. A channel would be a collection of topics. You can ignore the topics you are not interested in and focus on topics that are relevant. So for catching up all you need to do is go through the topics in a channel instead of going through all the messages. https://imgur.com/UMBuOuh https://imgur.com/UMBuOuh
      - thecatspaw 7y ago
        Just the same as I can ignore threads in Slack which I have no interest in. Its not the tool which break communication, its people not following rules. If people follow the "Use threads at all times" rule, slack is totally working fine. If people dont use it as their social media platform or keep their random thoughts to #random, there's no problem. It feels a bit tone-deaf to promote your tool in a thread about unproductivity caused by chat tools.
        vishnu_ks 7y ago
        > It feels a bit tone-deaf to promote your tool in a thread about unproductivity caused by chat tools. The entire article was written to promote their tool Nuclino. >> All of our team's work (including the writing of this article) happens in Nuclino, and even though it's a real-time collaboration tool, most of it happens asynchronously. Without the expectations of an immediate response, our team is free to focus on our work, reconnecting later to respond. I don't see any reason why one can't suggest an alternative product that solves the issues of synchronous chat apps just like the one mentioned in the Article. Zulip is an asynchronous tool just like Nuclino. > Its not the tool which break communication, its people not following rules. If people follow the "Use threads at all times" rule, slack is totally working fine. Eaxctly! People don't follow rules. Thats why Slack threads are hardly useful. On the other hand in Zulip people always create a new topic for a new conversation since that's how the tool is designed!
        RHSeeger 7y ago
        In my experience, Slack threads are absolutely horrible. I tend to miss that there's discussion on a thread for hours because it's almost "out of band" to the rest of the communication.
  - indigodaddy 7y ago
    What's the difference between a Zulip topic and a Slack channel? Are topics inside a channel?
    - vishnu_ks 7y ago
      Yup. Zulip has channels just like Slack. A channel is comprised of topics. When someone want to start a conversation they create a new topic. If they want to just join an existing conversation they reply back to the existing topic. You can see a live demo by visiting our community server at https://chat.zulip.org/ https://chat.zulip.org/
      - indigodaddy 7y ago
        Thanks! I guess I should have bothered to read your other reply but didn't notice it :)
- johnvaluk 7y ago
  We use Slack in a similar manner and the signal to noise ratio is extremely high. Some of our channels are key components of workflows. It's extremely easy to seek help or share information like links or code snippets. We're also very responsive, since it's always running on our workstations, laptops and phones. We'd probably frown on anyone treating it like a social media platform, though we do use it to let off steam once in a while.

goguy 7y ago

Yup, I just don't participate. I miss out on some things but it's worth it for avoiding the distraction IMO. If anyone needs me they can email, Skype or god forbid speak to me in person.

IshKebab 7y ago

Except for the fact that you don't have to be there.

jsight 7y ago
Yeah, and if someone really does need your input on something they'll pull you in for a few minutes. Or many minutes. But this isn't a bad thing.

Frost1x 7y ago

This is exactly why I don't use it. It's pretty much treated as synchronous communication. Sure, you can step away and ignore dialog for awhile to concentrate and do work, but people expect you to read back through what you missed and don't want to repeat discussions. A few people tried to push it on my team when it started growing in popularity and immediately I noticed how much of a time sink it was. No thank you, I have enough hurdles to delivery, I don't need additional artificial hurdles I have some say in.

jasonlotito 7y ago

I don't get it. Do people open up slack, and then sit there, staring at Slack? Sitting in a group chat, looking at everything that happens, reading everything that happens? I'm honestly curious. Do you watch other people get work done? Maybe in yours, people just chat about weird things all the time? I just don't get it. Slack just sits there in the dock, and I don't need to keep the window open to have it remain useful. Maybe someone can shed some light on how "Group chat is like being in an all-day meeting?" I honestly don't get it.

Tempest1981 7y ago
I think it's a voyeuristic tendency of some people to watch other people work. You can join a few dozen Slack channels, and peek in on them constantly, similar to twitter or reddit. Maybe a desire to find drama? Vs focus on your own "boring" problem. The funny thing is, it can make you feel productive!
- jasonlotito 7y ago
  If that's true, then it's in no way Slack that is the problem. I can't help but think there has to be something more.
  - Tempest1981 7y ago
    Slack is an enabler, making it easier. Same as any social media.