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Quoting from Caixing Global, a PRC-based financial news source: China Investment Network, a business newspaper in Beijing, released a "ghost town index" to det
by ilamont 8y ago
Quoting from Caixing Global, a PRC-based financial news source:
China Investment Network, a business newspaper in Beijing, released a "ghost town index" to determine which cities were, well, the most ghostly. The newspaper devised its index using a government standard that says cities should have 10,000 people per square kilometer. The editors at China Investment Network determined that if a city's ratio of people to area was 0.5 – that is, it was half full – then it is a ghost town. To take the example a step further, if a city had a ratio of .10, then it had one-tenth the population the government thought it deserved. Based on this approach, at least 50 Chinese cities fit the description of "ghost town." (1)
This report is from 2014, so maybe some of those cities were eventually filled ... but surely not all of them.
1. https://www.caixinglobal.com/2014-10-17/graphics-ghost-towns-101012983.html https://www.caixinglobal.com/2014-10-17/graphics-ghost-towns...
- asah 8y agoBy that definition, Chicago, Miami and Philadelphia are "ghost towns" with less than 5,000 people/sqkm source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
- kevingadd 8y agoYou can find many sources complaining about this in the US, yes. Real estate speculation, etc. People aren't happy about it, so that description is not unreasonable. Some cities are trying to pass laws to address it (not that those laws seem to work). The density of construction matters a lot here too. Many US cities like the ones you mention were not planned out and are subject to sprawl.
- rtkwe 8y agoThe number naturally has to be adjusted when trying to define 'ghost town' in America or anywhere else because relatively few places are built to be as dense as 10k/km^2.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- luckylion 8y agoWow, 10,000 per km² sounds crazy ambitious. By those standards, Germany is a ghost land, cities here barely reach those numbers in the densely populated parts, certainly not on average.
- seanmcdirmid 8y agoKeep in mind they are built out for that density, having comparably much less density (much closer to a German small town) before development.
- ASalazarMX 8y agoBerlin has 3,944 inhabitants per km2. If not even that city reaches the standard, I think the criteria must be flawed. My city is the third largest in Mexico and it has less than 3500/km2. Or maybe we need an article about ghost countries.
- Mirioron 8y agoBerlin has forests within its borders.
- s_trumpet 8y agoSo does Mumbai (the Sanjay Gandhi National Park) and it still supports a density of 73,000 people/sq km.
- seanmcdirmid 8y agoWhat? Wikipedia has Mumbai at just 21k/sqkm, and even that seems to be megacity (urban) density, not its metro density, which is only 4,700/sqkm. I assume the national park is in the latter and not the former. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_Metropolitan_Region https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_Metropolitan_Region
- 8y ago
- ChuckMcM 8y agoI think both of these positions (its a fake narrative, and "ghost towns abound") have elements of truth. What it is, is impossible to compare. Given the structure of western governments, and by that I mean nominally liberal democracies, a policy of funding the development of a city prior to their being any economic reason for the city to exist, is not possible. Western forms of government wait for economic pockets to develop, then tax them, and then with the tax revenue improve them to increase their economic potential. Without a tax base there is no mechanism for funding development. China on the other hand, has a central government with a fiscal policy of borrowing from the central bank to fund the creation of economic zones prior to there being any economic activity. Once that zone exists, it does not enhance the existing zones nearby thus as they grow there is incentive to move their activity to "nearby" zones which are under utilized. This takes time of course and between the time of construction and mass migration, well the zone is under utilized or a "ghost" town. When China guesses wrong, and the zone never supports additional economic activity, then its a complete write-off. Something a western government could not survive (they would be booted out of office for it) but one that a central government can (and does) survive. The bottom line is that it is easy to write stories that amaze people who live in one system by playing on the differences of the other system.
- Retric 8y agoA building sitting empty for 5 years is a massive cost even if it’s later filled. This goes beyond time value of money and into the limited lifespan of infrastructure. Ghost cities are a problem with an easy and obvious solution, slow down the rate of construction to more closely match population movement.
- sandworm101 8y ago>> A building sitting empty for 5 years is a massive cost even if it’s later filled. Don't look too closely at NYC, Vancouver, london, or any of the other hot markets. Whether for historical preservation scams or investment trickery, it is not unusual for a building to sit empty for many years. Given the effort that it takes to oust tenants, and the length of time necessary for zoning/planning, many owners would rather a building sit empty for years pending redevelopment rather than the hassle of filling it. Google "Calgary new horizons mall". From the owner/developer's perspective that mall is technically full and, at least for them, profitable.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- xscdcd 8y agoI just googled ghost city china and clicked on a random image which was a cnn article from 2014: https://www.cnn.com/style/article/china-ordos-ghost-town/index.html https://www.cnn.com/style/article/china-ordos-ghost-town/ind... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordos_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordos_City Apparently it is no longer a ghost town.
- gthtjtkt 8y agoOh look, the propaganda team has arrived!
- ehmish 8y agoYou don't seem to be refuting the central claim, but rather accusing the person of being non-genuine, can you point out any flaws with their assertion?
- sonnyblarney 8y agoOrdos is kind of the 'original' ghost city, the one that sparked Western curiosity. There's a lot of reporting about it subsequently. It looks like folks are indeed moving in, but maybe not at the rate that would make sense.
- seanmcdirmid 8y agoOrdos was never a ghost city, one of its newly built far out districts, Kangbashi, was. Chinese cities are more like counties that contain multiple municipalities.