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Not discussed is the antidote for blue teams: - 2FA - Password blacklists - Application Firewall that detects this hijinx (haven't explored this yet - anyone
by joeyrideout 8y ago
Not discussed is the antidote for blue teams:
- 2FA
- Password blacklists
- Application Firewall that detects this hijinx (haven't explored this yet - anyone know of a good one?)
- tptacek 8y agoIt's also a reason we generally push everyone to centralize authentication on an SSO provider like Okta or Google Cloud Identity, both because those platforms allow you to easily set policy requiring 2FA, which breaks the attack, and because OIDC and SAML let you log into lots of services without exposing each of them to account takeover independently. There are other good reasons to do this, too. At Black Hat last year, I cornered a bunch of CSO-types at big startups and asked for what their first 3 initiatives would be, and this was something I heard a bunch. You should have some kind of SSO set up, early.
- kasey_junk 8y agoDo you mean that your application you 'write' should support SSO early or that the applications you 'use' should? That is are you talking about integrating your product with SSO or integrating your IT systems?
- tptacek 8y agoThat, too! Especially if you have support personnel interacting with in-house applications, though putting those behind a VPN also goes a long way towards preventing account takeover on those applications. But in general, the idea is that you want an SSO early so all the random SAAS applications you subscribe to can have a coherent security policy.
- mc32 8y agoWhat do you about providers who while they support SAML keep the front door open after setting up trusts?
- Bombthecat 8y agoA colleague is currently implementing okta. As far as I heard it is a ton of work and very complicated. (they can't use saml, they use oauth)
- joeyrideout 8y agoFrom my experience, anything SSO-related has a steep learning curve in wrapping your head around IDP, SP, metadata, IDP-initiated vs. SP-initiated... there's a whole lexicon that isn't very intuitive. Ask me to set it up a year ago and I would have described it as "a ton of work and very complicated". Eventually it stuck, though :) Okta client here btw, and we use SAML (2.0) for many of our SSO integrations. Okta has pretty clear support for SAML 2.0. Maybe your colleague's app is a special case?
- Bombthecat 8y agoNope, not at all. He knew all those words and more (he is basically an oauth expert) He said the biggest problem is how okta handles user information, roles, rights and how it is stored. He said, that they have there own idea about it. (which can be good or bad...) didn't dig deeper though :)
- joeyrideout 8y ago100% agree. Fewer auth providers (ideally, one) greatly reduces the work involved with mitigating this attack (and maintaining permissions, auditing, passthrough... everything gets easier, really). Happy Okta client here.
- tuxloper 8y agoThanks, man! I've updated the article to reflect that.
- chelmzy 8y agoYou guys hiring?
- tuxloper 8y agoWe are unofficially, however not Offensive Security roles. We are open to hiring somebody for firewall management (specifically Fortinet firewalls) as part of our Sentry offering. https://navisec.io/services/sentry/ https://navisec.io/services/sentry/
- fosco 8y agocurious on the choice of Fortinet over other vendors like Palo Alto Networks or Checkpoint?
- ganoushoreilly 8y agoA lot of MSP's sold fortinet into small/med businesses due to costs and preferable licensing terms / commissions. They're everywhere in the market.
- joeyrideout 8y agoThank you for the great piece! I always love to see Burp used in a way I haven't seen before.
- chelmzy 8y ago>Password blacklists Assuming the external app is using AD auth. What product do you use to blacklist? Currently I just audit the passwords by dumping the hashes from the DC and running them against HIBP NTLM database.
- nextgens 8y agoCheck https://safepass.me https://safepass.me out (an active directory password filter)
- lucb1e 8y agoTo prevent disappointment for others that are interested: note that this is commercial and to get any sort of preview, you need to sign up and they emphasize that they want your corporate contact info... @nextgens: are you affiliated with them, or did you just have a good experience with their product and wanted to share it?
- ryanlol 8y agoAren't most people looking for something like this going to be BigCo employees?
- nextgens 8y agoI am affiliated and no, you don't need to sign-up to get a preview: We have a video that shows how to set it up and basic operation: https://safepass.me/demo-video https://safepass.me/demo-video We have a free "home-use" license: if your PC isn't hooked onto AD, it will just work. https://safepass.me/get-the-documentation https://safepass.me/get-the-documentation https://safepass.me/download https://safepass.me/download (the MSI)
- chelmzy 8y agoSweet. I'm going to get a demo from them. I've demoed Specops and nFront products but they were a tad out of my organization's price range.
- localhostdotdev 8y agoadditionally for passwords that are already stored, it's not too costly to check the hashes against the blacklist and revoke those existing passwords.
- netsectoday 8y ago> Application Firewall that detects this hijinx (haven't explored this yet - anyone know of a good one?) 1. Make sure your app requests are logged with the source IP and configure fail2ban to block the really bad offenders. 2. Set up `actionban` and `actionunban` commands in a custom fail2ban banaction.conf file. 3. Use ipset (an iptables extension) for O(log n) lookup against banned IPs in iptables (which affects all input/forward/output network requests). 4. Tadaa!
- joeyrideout 8y agoAt first glance I thought you were describing a more traditional network firewall, but with the data from application logs (failed logins, presumably) this becomes a very elegant entry WAF. Very cool!
- reidjs 8y agoHe mentions this at the end
- czbond 8y agoAWS WAF is great - up and running same day, heck even same hour depending on architecture.