6 ms·

NASA 'alien life' announcement leaked

65 points by ljf 16y ago

ljf 16y ago
Which marries with the speculation from yesterday: http://skymania.com/wp/2010/11/alien-life-form-is-here-on-earth.html/ http://skymania.com/wp/2010/11/alien-life-form-is-here-on-ea... (Previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1957823 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1957823 )
- ljf 16y ago
  The live announcement will be viewable here: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
ryandvm 16y ago
Does Julian Assange have no limits? [I'm saving my insightful commentary on extraterrestrial life for the Hacker News post after the press conference...]
- kiiski 16y ago
  What does Julian Assange have to do with this? I didn't see any mention of him or wikileaks in the article.
  - jcsalterego 16y ago
    Jokes!
  - cypherpunks01 16y ago
    The joke being that Assange leaked the announcement before the press conference, if that wasn't clear enough... : )
ericb 16y ago
If this is true, life evolving twice right here would have implications for what we would plug into the Drake equation, and make the deafening silence so far even a bit more eerie. edit: It sounded like a separate evolutionary path initially before the actual announcement--that is what I was saying "if this is true" about.
- JabavuAdams 16y ago
  Why would we expect anything other than silence? The universe is big, but time is long. The chances of two active technological species overlapping in time is pretty low. I'd expect to find a lot of ruins and artifacts out there.
  - ceejayoz 16y ago
    > The chances of two active technological species overlapping in time is pretty low. There are some pretty big assumptions about how long a technological species lasts in that statement.
    - sfphotoarts 16y ago
      ... and likely accurate assumptions, if the last 100 years is anything to go on.
      - ceejayoz 16y ago
        There are lots of alternative explanations proposed. Quick transitions into more advanced, less detectable communication technologies, for example.
        JabavuAdams 16y ago
        Or less detectable life-forms. I.e. we're wired to ascribe intelligence to human-like intelligence. Something radically different or developed might not look like intelligence to us. E.g. Are those proto-stars in a nebula? Or is that some transcendent intelligence's weekend project or substrate or waste matter?
gort 16y ago
Nature News: http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101202/full/news.2010.645.html http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101202/full/news.2010.645.ht... [Edit] They are calling it a member of the Halomonadaceae, which means it is descended from the common ancestor of that group, and so does not represent a second, independant origin of life.
- amichail 16y ago
  Why is this interesting at all if it is not an independent origin of life?
  - gort 16y ago
    Phosphorous is used by all previously known life in a number of ways, including as part of the DNA backbone. If there's something that uses something else, it's a big deal.
    - alexophile 16y ago
      It's a proof-of-concept for radical new ideas of where/how life can form. For instance, Titan has a thick atmosphere and lakes of liquid ethane/methane. If Arsenic-based life exists, could there be Methane-based life in those depths?
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        Shamiq 16y ago
        The issues may be different, but the doubt that is raised now in the one true way path of life are real.
        alexophile 16y ago
        Right, I guess 'methane-based life' was poor wording. Suffice it to say that this discovery implies that life can form in ways and places that we've never considered.
mfukar 16y ago
I knew they couldn't keep their mouth shut.
T_S_ 16y ago
If it didn't use DNA I'd be even more impressed. It's great that they leaked it, though. My 9th graders' science class is going to tune in live, thanks to the leak. Good opportunity to make science seem timely and relevant to kids.
- ceejayoz 16y ago
  Technically, it's not DNA, as it lacks the phosphate groups that are in DNA/RNA nucleotides.
  - T_S_ 16y ago
    Your point is well-taken. I was reacting to the early hype that suggested these bugs may have originated completely independently of other life on earth. If the organism evolved to use arsenic as a replacement for phosphate in a DNA-like chemical, I'm not sure if the independent origins hypothesis is really warranted. The Nature summary I saw today did not mention anything like that. The nature of hype I guess.
teilo 16y ago
From everything I have read so far, it seems that this is not so much a case of life evolving separately, but rather a simple, albeit unique, case of natural selection. If a bacteria could evolve to tolerate arsenic, it could then use arsenic as a substitute for phosphorus. That appears to be the case with the Mono Lake species. Yes, it opens up the possible chemical signatures for life to be found elsewhere, but I would hardly call it "alien life".
- aditya 16y ago
  Depends on how you define "alien", right? Alien as in different from human, then this qualifies. Alien as in extraterrestrial (ie. not originating on Earth), then this doesn't. The bigger question, in my mind, is can you evolve a sentient species (in a few million years) from this microbe? And what would happen if we threw this microbe on Mars or Venus? Would natural selection allow it to thrive there?
andreyf 16y ago
I think I remember my dad telling me of this as theoretically possible in the early 90's (he's a biologist).
psadauskas 16y ago
Phil Plait on Bad Astronomy has a really good write-up about it, and why it matters to exobiology: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/02/nasas-real-news-bacterium-on-earth-that-lives-off-arsenic/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/02/na...
jim_h 16y ago
Article from 2 years ago on the 'Arsenic-loving bacteria' http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2008/August/15080802.asp http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2008/August/15080802....
RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
Choose your news source for this story: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962894 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962894 - go.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962893 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962893 - nytimes.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962846 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962846 - nature.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962696 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962696 - longislandpress.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962386 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962386 - gizmodo.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962200 - gizmodo.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962110 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962110 - google.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1957823 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1957823 - skymania.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1953228 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1953228 - kottke.org
- bradfordw 16y ago
  You can even follow ArsenicBacteria on the twitters.
RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
Official announcement: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1963296 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1963296
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

65 points by ljf 16y ago

ljf 16y ago

Which marries with the speculation from yesterday: http://skymania.com/wp/2010/11/alien-life-form-is-here-on-earth.html/ http://skymania.com/wp/2010/11/alien-life-form-is-here-on-ea... (Previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1957823 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1957823 )

ljf 16y ago
The live announcement will be viewable here: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

ryandvm 16y ago

Does Julian Assange have no limits? [I'm saving my insightful commentary on extraterrestrial life for the Hacker News post after the press conference...]

kiiski 16y ago
What does Julian Assange have to do with this? I didn't see any mention of him or wikileaks in the article.
- jcsalterego 16y ago
  Jokes!
- cypherpunks01 16y ago
  The joke being that Assange leaked the announcement before the press conference, if that wasn't clear enough... : )

ericb 16y ago

If this is true, life evolving twice right here would have implications for what we would plug into the Drake equation, and make the deafening silence so far even a bit more eerie. edit: It sounded like a separate evolutionary path initially before the actual announcement--that is what I was saying "if this is true" about.

JabavuAdams 16y ago
Why would we expect anything other than silence? The universe is big, but time is long. The chances of two active technological species overlapping in time is pretty low. I'd expect to find a lot of ruins and artifacts out there.
- ceejayoz 16y ago
  > The chances of two active technological species overlapping in time is pretty low. There are some pretty big assumptions about how long a technological species lasts in that statement.
  - sfphotoarts 16y ago
    ... and likely accurate assumptions, if the last 100 years is anything to go on.
    - ceejayoz 16y ago
      There are lots of alternative explanations proposed. Quick transitions into more advanced, less detectable communication technologies, for example.
      - JabavuAdams 16y ago
        Or less detectable life-forms. I.e. we're wired to ascribe intelligence to human-like intelligence. Something radically different or developed might not look like intelligence to us. E.g. Are those proto-stars in a nebula? Or is that some transcendent intelligence's weekend project or substrate or waste matter?

gort 16y ago

Nature News: http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101202/full/news.2010.645.html http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101202/full/news.2010.645.ht... [Edit] They are calling it a member of the Halomonadaceae, which means it is descended from the common ancestor of that group, and so does not represent a second, independant origin of life.

amichail 16y ago
Why is this interesting at all if it is not an independent origin of life?
- gort 16y ago
  Phosphorous is used by all previously known life in a number of ways, including as part of the DNA backbone. If there's something that uses something else, it's a big deal.
  - alexophile 16y ago
    It's a proof-of-concept for radical new ideas of where/how life can form. For instance, Titan has a thick atmosphere and lakes of liquid ethane/methane. If Arsenic-based life exists, could there be Methane-based life in those depths?
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
      - Shamiq 16y ago
        The issues may be different, but the doubt that is raised now in the one true way path of life are real.
      - alexophile 16y ago
        Right, I guess 'methane-based life' was poor wording. Suffice it to say that this discovery implies that life can form in ways and places that we've never considered.

mfukar 16y ago

I knew they couldn't keep their mouth shut.

T_S_ 16y ago

If it didn't use DNA I'd be even more impressed. It's great that they leaked it, though. My 9th graders' science class is going to tune in live, thanks to the leak. Good opportunity to make science seem timely and relevant to kids.

ceejayoz 16y ago
Technically, it's not DNA, as it lacks the phosphate groups that are in DNA/RNA nucleotides.
- T_S_ 16y ago
  Your point is well-taken. I was reacting to the early hype that suggested these bugs may have originated completely independently of other life on earth. If the organism evolved to use arsenic as a replacement for phosphate in a DNA-like chemical, I'm not sure if the independent origins hypothesis is really warranted. The Nature summary I saw today did not mention anything like that. The nature of hype I guess.

teilo 16y ago

From everything I have read so far, it seems that this is not so much a case of life evolving separately, but rather a simple, albeit unique, case of natural selection. If a bacteria could evolve to tolerate arsenic, it could then use arsenic as a substitute for phosphorus. That appears to be the case with the Mono Lake species. Yes, it opens up the possible chemical signatures for life to be found elsewhere, but I would hardly call it "alien life".

aditya 16y ago
Depends on how you define "alien", right? Alien as in different from human, then this qualifies. Alien as in extraterrestrial (ie. not originating on Earth), then this doesn't. The bigger question, in my mind, is can you evolve a sentient species (in a few million years) from this microbe? And what would happen if we threw this microbe on Mars or Venus? Would natural selection allow it to thrive there?

andreyf 16y ago

I think I remember my dad telling me of this as theoretically possible in the early 90's (he's a biologist).

psadauskas 16y ago

Phil Plait on Bad Astronomy has a really good write-up about it, and why it matters to exobiology: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/02/nasas-real-news-bacterium-on-earth-that-lives-off-arsenic/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/02/na...

jim_h 16y ago

Article from 2 years ago on the 'Arsenic-loving bacteria' http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2008/August/15080802.asp http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2008/August/15080802....

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago

Choose your news source for this story: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962894 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962894 - go.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962893 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962893 - nytimes.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962846 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962846 - nature.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962696 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962696 - longislandpress.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962386 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962386 - gizmodo.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962200 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962200 - gizmodo.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962110 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1962110 - google.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1957823 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1957823 - skymania.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1953228 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1953228 - kottke.org

bradfordw 16y ago
You can even follow ArsenicBacteria on the twitters.

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago

Official announcement: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1963296 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1963296

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]