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I'd just caution against doing this in some areas. A member of a group I used to ride with decided to stop riding when someone opened their door to stop him fr

I'd just caution against doing this in some areas. A member of a group I used to ride with decided to stop riding when someone opened their door to stop him from splitting in PA. He smacked into the door, was physically okay, but ended up getting charged with something like "illegal lane change", had his insurance prices skyrocket, and decided to stop riding as he had to drive for his job, and he was worried that another 3-point ticket would get him a 30 day suspension and he'd basically lose his job.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
The driver who opened their door is very lucky nothing serious came of it. Many motorcycle riders would treat that as an attempt on their life and react accordingly, probably not working out well for the car driver.
- leesalminen 8y ago
  I’d say it probably wouldn’t work out well for anyone. Where I live, ~50% of motorists are armed and no permits are required to do so. Road rage never ends well for anyone involved here. The moral of the story is: be respectful of others. If you’re a motorcyclist in a state where it’s illegal to lane split, don’t do it. If you’re a driver in a state where it is legal, don’t be a dick to motorcyclists if they are lane splitting. I’d also like to add that I think lane splitting is wildly dangerous and dread driving in California. Surely motorcyclists die from this every year?
  - Klathmon 8y ago
    >I’d also like to add that I think lane splitting is wildly dangerous and dread driving in California. Surely motorcyclists die from this every year? So it's a bit contentious, but from what i've seen, it's safe as long as it's done safely, which is a dumb sentence, but let me explain: There are really 2 things that people talk about with "lane splitting": * Filtering - moving up between stopped cars at a light to the front of the pack, and then driving away when the light turns green. Generally you aren't passing other moving vehicles when filtering, or if they are moving it's a few mph at most. * Lane Splitting - This is when you are driving between lanes passing other vehicles that are moving. Filtering is considered to be safer than not filtering. It reduces rear-end accidents (people tend to "look through" bikers, and will pull up behind the car in front of them like they aren't there, there's also your "normal" rear-end accidents, but they are much worse for the biker...), it reduces traffic (bikes accelerate faster, so getting them out front is helpful to reduce the rubberbanding traffic), and it's obviously nicer for the biker as they get where they are going quicker. Splitting on the other hand is contentious. On the one hand I believe there have been studies done that shows it reduces fatalities. But at the same time it does actually increase accidents, but those accidents tend to be much less dangerous. Since a splitter should only be going 5-10mph faster than the cars, any impacts should be kind of like 10mph impacts, and are much less dangerous (obviously still dangerous, but much less than being rear-ended, getting left-turned into, or rear-ending something, etc...). And it greatly reduces low-speed rear-endings while sitting in traffic (a fairly low-speed fender-bender can be a lot worse when a small bump can throw you backwards off the bike and onto the ground!) But splitting does have other benefits other than safety. It's obviously much faster for the bikers, reduces traffic for everyone, and therefore reduces environmental impact in many cases (less cars AND bikes idling in traffic). And there are also second order benefits that it encourages more people to ride bikes, which just increases the above benefits even more. Still, it's my opinion that both Splitting and Filtering should be fully legal everywhere. It doesn't really impact drivers or those who don't split to have it be legal beyond a possibly slight increase in small accidents (there's an argument that if it is much more dangerous then it could increase healthcare costs for everyone too), and those who are okay with the risks can do it. And obviously at no point should anyone ever be flying between cars going 20mph+ faster than the cars around them. That's not safe splitting, and that's not what I want either.
    - leesalminen 8y ago
      I appreciate the in depth reply and hadn’t considered the different types of splitting. > And obviously at no point should anyone ever be flying between cars going 20mph+ faster than the cars around them. That's not safe splitting, and that's not what I want either. I think this is what I’m mostly referring to. We can definitely agree here! It seems to happen all too frequently when I’m driving in CA (mostly LA and SF, some SD).
    - burfog 8y ago
      I thought it was a pair of motorcycles side-by-side according to mutual prior agreement. That would be understandable. Those other things are crazy. Unintentionally, I will kill you. I hope the law would agree that it is 100% your fault, because I would want to sue your estate for damages both physical and mental.
      - i_am_proteus 8y ago
        This is not how the law works in most countries and in California. You are also more likely to unintentionally kill me if I don't lane split. Anecdote: a motorist lost control of his vehicle at highway speeds far ahead of me, causing everyone to brake suddenly. I split into the braked cars and slowed down. The car I had been behind was rear-ended violently. If I had not lane split, I would have been rear-ended violently. I will take an unlimited number low-speed side scrapes over being hit from behind by a two-ton car going 30 mph faster.
        burfog 8y ago
        I'm paying attention to the road ahead, so I wouldn't rear-end anybody. On the other hand, I have huge blind spots to the side and anyway my attention is mainly to the road ahead. I barely fit in the lane, and would easily crush you with my 3 to 5 tons. Recently I was driving with about 4 inches to the adjacent vehicles on each side. You don't fit in 4 inches; this is not a scrape. That came up unexpectedly, as the lanes narrowed and other large vehicles were beside me.
  - i_am_proteus 8y ago
    Surely motorcyclists do indeed die of it every year. But it's statistically safer than not lane splitting if done properly.[0] That's right folks: caring about what's statistically the safest thing to do after deciding to ride a motorbike. [0]https://www.ots.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/67/2018/09/Motorcycle-Lane-Splitting-and-Safety-2015.pdf https://www.ots.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/67/2018/09/M...
- btrettel 8y ago
  As a bicyclist, I was surprised by the sheer number of drivers who seem intent on punishing bicyclists, often for actions that are not illegal. So, given this experience I am not surprised to hear the same is true for motorcyclists. I've had people do very close "punishment passes" on me because they thought I was going far below the speed limit when in reality I was going roughly 17 mph in a 15 mph zone. This is not some sort of isolated incident. I've spoken to several of them and it's rare that I get an apology for it. Add on top of that the people who pass me closely while yelling things like "get in the bike lane!" when I'm riding in the sharrow lane and there is no bike lane.
de_watcher 8y ago
Opening the door to harm other person is already on the criminal level. Even if the rider is not respecting traffic regulations.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

The driver who opened their door is very lucky nothing serious came of it. Many motorcycle riders would treat that as an attempt on their life and react accordingly, probably not working out well for the car driver.

leesalminen 8y ago
I’d say it probably wouldn’t work out well for anyone. Where I live, ~50% of motorists are armed and no permits are required to do so. Road rage never ends well for anyone involved here. The moral of the story is: be respectful of others. If you’re a motorcyclist in a state where it’s illegal to lane split, don’t do it. If you’re a driver in a state where it is legal, don’t be a dick to motorcyclists if they are lane splitting. I’d also like to add that I think lane splitting is wildly dangerous and dread driving in California. Surely motorcyclists die from this every year?
- Klathmon 8y ago
  >I’d also like to add that I think lane splitting is wildly dangerous and dread driving in California. Surely motorcyclists die from this every year? So it's a bit contentious, but from what i've seen, it's safe as long as it's done safely, which is a dumb sentence, but let me explain: There are really 2 things that people talk about with "lane splitting": * Filtering - moving up between stopped cars at a light to the front of the pack, and then driving away when the light turns green. Generally you aren't passing other moving vehicles when filtering, or if they are moving it's a few mph at most. * Lane Splitting - This is when you are driving between lanes passing other vehicles that are moving. Filtering is considered to be safer than not filtering. It reduces rear-end accidents (people tend to "look through" bikers, and will pull up behind the car in front of them like they aren't there, there's also your "normal" rear-end accidents, but they are much worse for the biker...), it reduces traffic (bikes accelerate faster, so getting them out front is helpful to reduce the rubberbanding traffic), and it's obviously nicer for the biker as they get where they are going quicker. Splitting on the other hand is contentious. On the one hand I believe there have been studies done that shows it reduces fatalities. But at the same time it does actually increase accidents, but those accidents tend to be much less dangerous. Since a splitter should only be going 5-10mph faster than the cars, any impacts should be kind of like 10mph impacts, and are much less dangerous (obviously still dangerous, but much less than being rear-ended, getting left-turned into, or rear-ending something, etc...). And it greatly reduces low-speed rear-endings while sitting in traffic (a fairly low-speed fender-bender can be a lot worse when a small bump can throw you backwards off the bike and onto the ground!) But splitting does have other benefits other than safety. It's obviously much faster for the bikers, reduces traffic for everyone, and therefore reduces environmental impact in many cases (less cars AND bikes idling in traffic). And there are also second order benefits that it encourages more people to ride bikes, which just increases the above benefits even more. Still, it's my opinion that both Splitting and Filtering should be fully legal everywhere. It doesn't really impact drivers or those who don't split to have it be legal beyond a possibly slight increase in small accidents (there's an argument that if it is much more dangerous then it could increase healthcare costs for everyone too), and those who are okay with the risks can do it. And obviously at no point should anyone ever be flying between cars going 20mph+ faster than the cars around them. That's not safe splitting, and that's not what I want either.
  - leesalminen 8y ago
    I appreciate the in depth reply and hadn’t considered the different types of splitting. > And obviously at no point should anyone ever be flying between cars going 20mph+ faster than the cars around them. That's not safe splitting, and that's not what I want either. I think this is what I’m mostly referring to. We can definitely agree here! It seems to happen all too frequently when I’m driving in CA (mostly LA and SF, some SD).
  - burfog 8y ago
    I thought it was a pair of motorcycles side-by-side according to mutual prior agreement. That would be understandable. Those other things are crazy. Unintentionally, I will kill you. I hope the law would agree that it is 100% your fault, because I would want to sue your estate for damages both physical and mental.
    - i_am_proteus 8y ago
      This is not how the law works in most countries and in California. You are also more likely to unintentionally kill me if I don't lane split. Anecdote: a motorist lost control of his vehicle at highway speeds far ahead of me, causing everyone to brake suddenly. I split into the braked cars and slowed down. The car I had been behind was rear-ended violently. If I had not lane split, I would have been rear-ended violently. I will take an unlimited number low-speed side scrapes over being hit from behind by a two-ton car going 30 mph faster.
      - burfog 8y ago
        I'm paying attention to the road ahead, so I wouldn't rear-end anybody. On the other hand, I have huge blind spots to the side and anyway my attention is mainly to the road ahead. I barely fit in the lane, and would easily crush you with my 3 to 5 tons. Recently I was driving with about 4 inches to the adjacent vehicles on each side. You don't fit in 4 inches; this is not a scrape. That came up unexpectedly, as the lanes narrowed and other large vehicles were beside me.
- i_am_proteus 8y ago
  Surely motorcyclists do indeed die of it every year. But it's statistically safer than not lane splitting if done properly.[0] That's right folks: caring about what's statistically the safest thing to do after deciding to ride a motorbike. [0]https://www.ots.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/67/2018/09/Motorcycle-Lane-Splitting-and-Safety-2015.pdf https://www.ots.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/67/2018/09/M...
btrettel 8y ago
As a bicyclist, I was surprised by the sheer number of drivers who seem intent on punishing bicyclists, often for actions that are not illegal. So, given this experience I am not surprised to hear the same is true for motorcyclists. I've had people do very close "punishment passes" on me because they thought I was going far below the speed limit when in reality I was going roughly 17 mph in a 15 mph zone. This is not some sort of isolated incident. I've spoken to several of them and it's rare that I get an apology for it. Add on top of that the people who pass me closely while yelling things like "get in the bike lane!" when I'm riding in the sharrow lane and there is no bike lane.

de_watcher 8y ago

Opening the door to harm other person is already on the criminal level. Even if the rider is not respecting traffic regulations.