4 ms·

i was flying through zurich recently. McDonalds big mac, fries and soda were $20 (!!!). Is everyone there pretty much a millionaire?

by readhn 8y ago

bluetidepro 8y ago
Does that comparison work in that context, though? I've seen a lot of traditionally "cheap US fast-food" be expensive overseas in many countries. I imagine because there is almost a tourist aspect to it, unlike when it's here in the US. Is there a Swiss version of what they consider cheap fast-food, and is that place still $20 for a basic meal?
- readhn 8y ago
  How much does a Tesla 3 cost in Switzerland? $70-75K?
- MHordecki 8y ago
  > Is there a Swiss version of what they consider cheap fast-food, and is that place still $20 for a basic meal? Döner joints. They are about ~15 CHF for a meal including a drink.
- matt4077 8y ago
  McDonald's is used as a pretty good proxy for local prices and buying power around the globe. There's even the Big Mac Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index).
  - readhn 8y ago
    exactly. McD is a good proxy for overall cost of living.
jacquesm 8y ago
No, the USD and the Euro have dropped tremendously relative to the Swiss Franc.
- matt4077 8y ago
  This doesn't strike me as a "tremendous drop". Or really much of any definitive change: https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&ei=LAmuXO_hJNGhkwXl8JOAAg&q=swiss+franc+to+usd&oq=swiss+franc+to+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.35i39j0j0i67j0l7.42021.42559..44085...0.0..0.75.277.4......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.GGP4FVoeu60 https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&ei=LAmuXO...
  - adventured 8y ago
    To an extent what jacquesm is saying, is true. Here is the long-term USD vs Swiss Franc from 1971 to 2011: https://i.imgur.com/vANpWK2.png https://i.imgur.com/vANpWK2.png The Swiss have benefitted from maintaing a sound fiscal house and associated currency, over time. The US, much of Western Europe and Japan have been busy debasing themselves with enormous financial mistakes over the last several decades. You can see two disastrous dollar periods in that chart. The Vietnam War, Johnson-Nixon, spending irresponsibility and inflation disaster of the 1970s. And the Bush war-on-terror, pump your way out of a recession to get re-elected, fiscal disaster of 2002-2008 (then the final nail in that stupidity wagon with the great recession crash that the Fed caused with interest rate mistakes after 9/11). The US and Switzerland had the same GDP per capita in 2000, prior to the fiscal mistakes that sank the dollar shortly thereafter. Now it's more like $62,500 vs ~$80,000. If the US had been financially frugal, the dollar would be worth a lot more than it is today and the Swiss GDP per capita would be at least 1/3 lower in dollar terms. By 1985, with the Volcker strong dollar, the US GDP per capita overtook Switzerland, $18k vs $16k. And before that, with the weak 1970s dollar, by 1980 the US was at ~$12k and the Swiss were nearly 50% higher at $18. Which is to say, the horrible financial choices that Washington DC has made since the late 1960s, has severely harmed the average American, their purchasing power, their ability to save vs real inflation, their ability to see wage gains exceed the rate of real inflation consistently, and the ability of GDP growth to maximally exceed real inflation.
    - bildung 8y ago
      >* The Swiss have benefitted from maintaing a sound fiscal house and associated currency, over time. The US, much of Western Europe and Japan have been busy debasing themselves with enormous financial mistakes over the last several decades.* No, these other countries are all industrial producers (and Switzerland isn't), therefore profiting from low exchange rates.
Matthias247 8y ago
Switzerland definitely is the high-income and high-cost country in Europe. So a Model 3 will be comparably more cheap for those living there than for e.g. people in eastern Europe, based on the amount of income one needs to save in order to buy it at some point of time.

i was flying through zurich recently. McDonalds big mac, fries and soda were $20 (!!!). Is everyone there pretty much a millionaire?

by readhn 8y ago

i was flying through zurich recently. McDonalds big mac, fries and soda were $20 (!!!). Is everyone there pretty much a millionaire?

bluetidepro 8y ago

Does that comparison work in that context, though? I've seen a lot of traditionally "cheap US fast-food" be expensive overseas in many countries. I imagine because there is almost a tourist aspect to it, unlike when it's here in the US. Is there a Swiss version of what they consider cheap fast-food, and is that place still $20 for a basic meal?

readhn 8y ago
How much does a Tesla 3 cost in Switzerland? $70-75K?
MHordecki 8y ago
> Is there a Swiss version of what they consider cheap fast-food, and is that place still $20 for a basic meal? Döner joints. They are about ~15 CHF for a meal including a drink.
matt4077 8y ago
McDonald's is used as a pretty good proxy for local prices and buying power around the globe. There's even the Big Mac Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index).
- readhn 8y ago
  exactly. McD is a good proxy for overall cost of living.

jacquesm 8y ago

No, the USD and the Euro have dropped tremendously relative to the Swiss Franc.

matt4077 8y ago
This doesn't strike me as a "tremendous drop". Or really much of any definitive change: https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&ei=LAmuXO_hJNGhkwXl8JOAAg&q=swiss+franc+to+usd&oq=swiss+franc+to+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.35i39j0j0i67j0l7.42021.42559..44085...0.0..0.75.277.4......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.GGP4FVoeu60 https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&ei=LAmuXO...
- adventured 8y ago
  To an extent what jacquesm is saying, is true. Here is the long-term USD vs Swiss Franc from 1971 to 2011: https://i.imgur.com/vANpWK2.png https://i.imgur.com/vANpWK2.png The Swiss have benefitted from maintaing a sound fiscal house and associated currency, over time. The US, much of Western Europe and Japan have been busy debasing themselves with enormous financial mistakes over the last several decades. You can see two disastrous dollar periods in that chart. The Vietnam War, Johnson-Nixon, spending irresponsibility and inflation disaster of the 1970s. And the Bush war-on-terror, pump your way out of a recession to get re-elected, fiscal disaster of 2002-2008 (then the final nail in that stupidity wagon with the great recession crash that the Fed caused with interest rate mistakes after 9/11). The US and Switzerland had the same GDP per capita in 2000, prior to the fiscal mistakes that sank the dollar shortly thereafter. Now it's more like $62,500 vs ~$80,000. If the US had been financially frugal, the dollar would be worth a lot more than it is today and the Swiss GDP per capita would be at least 1/3 lower in dollar terms. By 1985, with the Volcker strong dollar, the US GDP per capita overtook Switzerland, $18k vs $16k. And before that, with the weak 1970s dollar, by 1980 the US was at ~$12k and the Swiss were nearly 50% higher at $18. Which is to say, the horrible financial choices that Washington DC has made since the late 1960s, has severely harmed the average American, their purchasing power, their ability to save vs real inflation, their ability to see wage gains exceed the rate of real inflation consistently, and the ability of GDP growth to maximally exceed real inflation.
  - bildung 8y ago
    >* The Swiss have benefitted from maintaing a sound fiscal house and associated currency, over time. The US, much of Western Europe and Japan have been busy debasing themselves with enormous financial mistakes over the last several decades.* No, these other countries are all industrial producers (and Switzerland isn't), therefore profiting from low exchange rates.

Matthias247 8y ago

Switzerland definitely is the high-income and high-cost country in Europe. So a Model 3 will be comparably more cheap for those living there than for e.g. people in eastern Europe, based on the amount of income one needs to save in order to buy it at some point of time.