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If the article is to be believed why does the USA feel the need to police waters 6,600 miles from its mainland. Surely their claim to this area is lesser when c

If the article is to be believed why does the USA feel the need to police waters 6,600 miles from its mainland. Surely their claim to this area is lesser when compared to Chain, Japan, Tiawan ect....

culturestate 8y ago
Note: I'm not making a political argument either way here, just a quick aside about the development of the world over the last 70 years. Since the end of WW2 the U.S. has become, for better or worse, the world's stabilizing agent. Of course there are peaks and valleys - argue all you want about American intervention in the Middle East or South America - but broadly speaking world governments expect America to take care of business. Huge swaths of modern society depend on the U.S. being a (relatively) honest broker and protector of "peace" - two notable examples of which, in fact, are Japan and Taiwan. The latter very arguably remains independent today thanks to American protection. If China chose to claim exclusive rights to the South China Sea tomorrow, it's unlikely that Japan or Taiwan or Vietnam or any coalition of coastal nations together - without American or pan-European support - could push back successfully. All of this is shifting, of course, as nationalist movements gain momentum and confidence in America wanes but for the moment (and the immediate future), this is the world we live in.
- xkcd-sucks 8y ago
  It's also worth remembering that USA contributed to postwar reconstruction under informal, and sometimes formal, agreements that the nations would outsource their military operations. Japan does not have a "true" military to this day, and Taiwan never developed or acquired nuclear weapons. This is at the request of USA, paid for in protection.
  - CapricornNoble 8y ago
    That whole perception of Japan not having a military is just a technicality.....their "Maritime Self-Defense Force" is easily the 3rd largest and most powerful navy in the Pacific (after the US and China). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Japan_Maritime_Self-Defense_Force_ships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Japan_Maritime_... The "Air Self-Defense Force" has more combat jets that the UK's Royal Air Force, and almost as many as the mighty Israeli Air Force. The Japanese are just postured exclusively for national defense and territorial integrity....which many people don't realize includes the ability of executing credible counter-offensives to liberate lost territory. I would argue that until the past ~5-10 years or so, the Chinese stood no chance in a big fight out here in the First Island Chain. The qualitative AND quantitative differences between the Chinese and Japanese hardware were just that large.
- rchaud 8y ago
  > but broadly speaking world governments expect America to take care of business. This is only true of Japan, who as part of the WW2 reconstruction, agreed to draw up a pacifist constitution and receive protection from the US against threats in the Cold War era. Asian leaders have "taken care of" plenty of business using US training, money and technology. Sukarno's regime in Indonesia killed 500k-1000k people alone in anti-communist purges in 1965-66. Back in those days, you could say the words "they'll nationalize the oil fields" and the US would come-a-runnin'.
nradov 8y ago
When it comes to international waters, no nation has a lesser claim. That's the whole point of having international waters.
DanTheManPR 8y ago
A large chunk of US economic activity depends on trade that travels these sea lanes. Just because the South China Sea is far away doesn't mean that the US doesn't have serious interests in the region.
- CapricornNoble 8y ago
  Something like 80% of the traffic in the SCS either goes to, or comes from, a Chinese port. I used to have a better reference but this is the closest I can find in my bookmarks for now: https://web.archive.org/web/20180726044318/http://www.atimes.com/china-and-the-south-china-sea-dispute-the-5-trillion-lie/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180726044318/http://www.atimes... So if economic activity is the metric that supposedly justifies US interest there, then the need to secure its vital maritime lines of communication is even more pronounced for China than for the US.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
howard941 8y ago
Treaty obligations spur the need https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia_Treaty_Organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia_Treaty_Organiza... edit: plus freedom of nav demos
jki275 8y ago
We don't claim much in the region, only Guam and the Marshall Islands as I recall. Conducting Naval operations in international waters with and at the request of our many allies in the region is something we've done since WWII.
roywiggins 8y ago
Swap out the US for Britain, and it may be more clear. The US is a naval empire, like Britain was. Driving ships around the planet to maintain free flow of trade and military hardware is more or less the number one job when you're a global naval superpower.
T-A 8y ago
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-07/why-the-south-china-sea-fuels-u-s-china-tensions-quicktake https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-07/why-the-s...

If the article is to be believed why does the USA feel the need to police waters 6,600 miles from its mainland. Surely their claim to this area is lesser when compared to Chain, Japan, Tiawan ect....

culturestate 8y ago

Note: I'm not making a political argument either way here, just a quick aside about the development of the world over the last 70 years. Since the end of WW2 the U.S. has become, for better or worse, the world's stabilizing agent. Of course there are peaks and valleys - argue all you want about American intervention in the Middle East or South America - but broadly speaking world governments expect America to take care of business. Huge swaths of modern society depend on the U.S. being a (relatively) honest broker and protector of "peace" - two notable examples of which, in fact, are Japan and Taiwan. The latter very arguably remains independent today thanks to American protection. If China chose to claim exclusive rights to the South China Sea tomorrow, it's unlikely that Japan or Taiwan or Vietnam or any coalition of coastal nations together - without American or pan-European support - could push back successfully. All of this is shifting, of course, as nationalist movements gain momentum and confidence in America wanes but for the moment (and the immediate future), this is the world we live in.

xkcd-sucks 8y ago
It's also worth remembering that USA contributed to postwar reconstruction under informal, and sometimes formal, agreements that the nations would outsource their military operations. Japan does not have a "true" military to this day, and Taiwan never developed or acquired nuclear weapons. This is at the request of USA, paid for in protection.
- CapricornNoble 8y ago
  That whole perception of Japan not having a military is just a technicality.....their "Maritime Self-Defense Force" is easily the 3rd largest and most powerful navy in the Pacific (after the US and China). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Japan_Maritime_Self-Defense_Force_ships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Japan_Maritime_... The "Air Self-Defense Force" has more combat jets that the UK's Royal Air Force, and almost as many as the mighty Israeli Air Force. The Japanese are just postured exclusively for national defense and territorial integrity....which many people don't realize includes the ability of executing credible counter-offensives to liberate lost territory. I would argue that until the past ~5-10 years or so, the Chinese stood no chance in a big fight out here in the First Island Chain. The qualitative AND quantitative differences between the Chinese and Japanese hardware were just that large.
rchaud 8y ago
> but broadly speaking world governments expect America to take care of business. This is only true of Japan, who as part of the WW2 reconstruction, agreed to draw up a pacifist constitution and receive protection from the US against threats in the Cold War era. Asian leaders have "taken care of" plenty of business using US training, money and technology. Sukarno's regime in Indonesia killed 500k-1000k people alone in anti-communist purges in 1965-66. Back in those days, you could say the words "they'll nationalize the oil fields" and the US would come-a-runnin'.

nradov 8y ago

When it comes to international waters, no nation has a lesser claim. That's the whole point of having international waters.

DanTheManPR 8y ago

A large chunk of US economic activity depends on trade that travels these sea lanes. Just because the South China Sea is far away doesn't mean that the US doesn't have serious interests in the region.

CapricornNoble 8y ago
Something like 80% of the traffic in the SCS either goes to, or comes from, a Chinese port. I used to have a better reference but this is the closest I can find in my bookmarks for now: https://web.archive.org/web/20180726044318/http://www.atimes.com/china-and-the-south-china-sea-dispute-the-5-trillion-lie/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180726044318/http://www.atimes... So if economic activity is the metric that supposedly justifies US interest there, then the need to secure its vital maritime lines of communication is even more pronounced for China than for the US.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

howard941 8y ago

Treaty obligations spur the need https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia_Treaty_Organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia_Treaty_Organiza... edit: plus freedom of nav demos

jki275 8y ago

We don't claim much in the region, only Guam and the Marshall Islands as I recall. Conducting Naval operations in international waters with and at the request of our many allies in the region is something we've done since WWII.

roywiggins 8y ago

Swap out the US for Britain, and it may be more clear. The US is a naval empire, like Britain was. Driving ships around the planet to maintain free flow of trade and military hardware is more or less the number one job when you're a global naval superpower.

T-A 8y ago

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-07/why-the-south-china-sea-fuels-u-s-china-tensions-quicktake https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-07/why-the-s...