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Dutch East India Company had its own colonies and army. Practically speaking, it was a branch of the Dutch government, so comparing it to the contemporary comp
by xeeeeeeeeeeenu 8y ago
Dutch East India Company had its own colonies and army. Practically speaking, it was a branch of the Dutch government, so comparing it to the contemporary companies doesn't make much sense.
- black-tea 8y agoPractically speaking some of today's big companies are branches of the government too.
- garmaine 8y agoOutside of company towns in a few industries, and maybe some multi-national resource extraction companies that operate in lawless areas, how is this true?
- caymanjim 8y agoThere aren't too many, but Saudi Aramco, Statoil (until 2007, when it became the multinational Equinor), China Petrochemical, and a few other giant corporations exist (or in the case of Statoil, recently existed). Corporations wholly owned by nations. I think that qualifies. Although I believe the parent was perhaps making a cynical comment about how e.g. Lockheed is basically a branch of the US military.
- dymbo 8y agoStatoil became Equinor in 2018, not 2007. Also, Equinor is still largely owned by the Norwegian government (67% as of 2017)
- debaserab2 8y agoName one?
- black-tea 8y agoDisney is mostly responsible for copyright in the US being extended to ludicrous lengths. They changed the law so they could keep making money. Also these copyright companies seem to get special treatment by the government. Notice how they are able to use police to "raid" data centres etc.? In the UK a young guy who ran a torrent site was raided by police in the early hours only to be released without charge months later. These companies have special powers in government, hence practically they are a part of the government.
- kmlx 8y agodisney is a publicly traded company. i own stock in disney :)
- ummonk 8y agoThe Dutch East India Company was publicly traded too.
- mcv 8y agoIt was in fact the first company in the world that was publicly traded at the world's first stock exchange.
- jeffwass 8y agoThere were bonds issued by Dutch East India Company https://brbl-dl.library.yale.edu/vufind/Record/3433724 https://brbl-dl.library.yale.edu/vufind/Record/3433724
- wcoenen 8y agoBonds are just a debt instrument, they don't give control over companies like stocks. The VOC also had publicly tradable stocks though.
- arcticbull 8y agoThe Dutch East India Company was the first company in the history of the world to issue shares to the public. They paid an 18% dividend for over 200 years.
- ekianjo 8y agoNot really, what you see rather is Crony capitalism which is when government and large corporations work together to further their interests, often in what should be considered an illegal way.
- VvR-Ox 8y agoThe problem is that the wealthy people are the one's who govern. (they define what is and what isn't legal) This is interconnected and to change it would mean to break it up somehow. Therefor you'd need to change the premise that "wealth is power" which is a basic equation of our global system since centuries.
- paganel 8y agoNot sure why you got down-voted, as I remember that as recently as the early 2010s some US agencies were still involved in industrial espionage on behalf of US companies. From a 2014 Snowden interview [1]: > The U.S. National Security Agency is involved in industrial espionage and will grab any intelligence it can get its hands on regardless of its value to national security, former NSA contractor Edward Snowden told a German TV network. (...) “If there’s information at Siemens that’s beneficial to U.S. national interests - even if it doesn’t have anything to do with national security - then they’ll take that information nevertheless,” Snowden said, according to ARD, which recorded the interview in Russia where he has claimed asylum. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-security-snowden-germany/snowden-says-nsa-engages-in-industrial-espionage-tv-idUSBREA0P0DE20140126 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-security-snowden-germany/...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- amelius 8y agoAnother difference is that slavery was not an issue for them.
- antt 8y agoYes, imagine how much more efficient Microsoft and Apple would be if they could hire slaves directly instead of having to rely on warlords in Africa to do it for them.
- beart 8y agoSlaves aren’t hired.
- bartimus 8y agoIt looks like slaves were more like merchandise for the VOC. And not really that significant for their trade. They were bought from existing slave markets. Slaves were mainly captured by local Africans (from other tribes). > the Dutch had only a relatively insignificant share in the Atlantic slave trade—never averaging much more than 5–6 per cent of the total. https://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/545 https://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/545
- cyphunk 8y agoAdditional information about the companies use of slaves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company#Slavery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company#Slave...
- EvagohP5 8y agoit isn't either for Apple fam
- psychoslave 8y agoAs in "You don’t know it, but you’re working for Facebook. For free."[1]? [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/07/22/you-dont-know-it-but-youre-working-for-facebook-for-free/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.35ce9c07a85e https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/07...
- consp 8y agoThere are several companies working, especially in the middle East and Africa, who have private armies (sometimes naively called security companies). The comparison hold up here. And until the government took possession of the company in the early 19th century, it was controlled by it's board, not the government. So yes, it was a company. Sanctioned by, but not reporting to, the government.
- ekianjo 8y agoHaving private security companies makes sense to protect your operations in certain areas where police is deficient. But you will not really see companies invading territories using force these days. That is pretty much the monopoly of government forces.
- Sharlin 8y agoI wouldn't be surprised if they would, if only there still were nonsovereign territories (in the sense of "having a flag" [1]) around for taking. [1] https://youtu.be/uEx5G-GOS1k https://youtu.be/uEx5G-GOS1k
- kiliantics 8y agoIt's still being done, it just looks a little different. Instead of sending our own army in, you arm/fund rebel groups to invade and then do your bidding. Or, if you're really powerful, you ask the US government and they will send in the CIA/army to "topple a corrupt regime" that was stymying your business pursuits.
- mcv 8y agoWas the VOC a branch of the Dutch government, or was the Dutch government a branch of the VOC? The Dutch government was extremely trade-oriented during the 17th century, and the army would be deployed to protect the trade interests of the VOC.
- avenius 8y agoI believe it started out as an independent company, but was later taken over by the Dutch government.
- AndyMcConachie 8y agoThe real innovation of the VOC was how they financed things. Prior to the VOC exploration was funded by monarchs. The VOC brought in the concept of banking and share holding. Later on this spawned things like risk management and the insurance industry.
- JackFr 8y agoOne of the VOC's innovations was permanent capitalization. Prior to them, spice trading enterprises to the Indies were literally venture capital. Money was put up at the the start of the voyage and all assets were liquidated at the return. The enterprise lasted only as long as the voyage there and back. Some traders started putting together packages of voyages, again always with the stipulation that assets would be liquidated at a certain point. The bold innovation of the VOC was allow shares to be tradable, with claims on profits, and thus the enterprise could be permanently capitalized.
- jillesvangurp 8y agoThe Dutch government at the time was sort of an anomaly in the sense that after kicking out the Spanish army, it sort of accidentally became a federation of provinces without a proper monarch and a relatively strong navy. Also, a lot of oppressed jews, protestants, etc. found refuge in Amsterdam bringing in a lot of capital. So in that climate of relative peace, tolerance, cultural intermingling, and trading, a lot of innovative stuff (financially, scientifically, etc.) happened in a short span of time. Trade was indeed a big driver and the VoC basically was one of the first companies/multinationals that used the stock market to raise capital to build an enormous amount of ships that definitely had a lot of defensive/offensive capability. So the VoC was its own navy effectively. Ship building at the time was labor and capital intensive and required access to a lot of resources (e.g. timber). So capital and easy access to local trade routes (the rhine, baltics, etc.) was essential. When these ships started bringing back goods from Africa and the Indian Ocean regions, people started making lots of money. Dominating the channel militarily and being able to deal with the French, Spanish, and British navies also was key. The scale of the VoC was simply unprecedented.
- chewz 8y agoThere were other private colonial enterprises - British India Company, Kingdom of Sarawak, Kongo Abir Company. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abir_Congo_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abir_Congo_Company 3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Sarawak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Sarawak
- Scarblac 8y agoEven crazier, Abir operated in Congo Free State (the present-day Democratic Republic of the Congo). That was a private, personally owned colony of King Leopold II of Belgium. At the end of the 19th century. Congo is enormous.
- Aunche 8y agoInterestingly enough, the GDP of the Netherlands today is "only" $800 billion, which is a tenth of what the article claims the Dutch East India company is worth.