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This is pure anecdote, but... A NOAA employee told me about the time their boss caught holy hell from a Senator because the NWS had the gall to update a partic

This is pure anecdote, but... A NOAA employee told me about the time their boss caught holy hell from a Senator because the NWS had the gall to update a particular weather product they offered by adding color to the map. Evidently someone had a business essentially downloading the free NOAA data and improving it by coloring the maps and selling that as a product. When NOAA made it free, they called their Senator in anger. And said Senator slapped NOAA's wrist. Seems like the same school of thought in a much bigger market.

nemo44x 8y ago
Michael Lewis wrote about the NOAA and this exact type of thing in his last book. In essence the NOAA spends lots of tax payer money to collect weather data but can’t do much with it other than give it away exclusively to a handful of entities that can repackage and sell it. The eventual dystopian end state could be where the NOAA can’t alert people to tornados and only those subscribing to a weather service would be alerted to get to safety.
- wbl 8y ago
  Have you seen weather.gov? They do provide free products.
  - kevin_b_er 8y ago
    For now. The NOAA is headed now by a man who spent 30 years trying to hobble the NWS.
- moftz 8y ago
  You can get an emergency radio capable of receiving VHF NOAA weather alerts. There is typically at least one of the frequencies within range where ever you are. You can subscribe to weather alerts through RSS on their site as well. https://alerts.weather.gov/ https://alerts.weather.gov/ You can even pass lat/long points to the forecast page and it will pull up the closest weather station, even points in the ocean work. https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=43.4802&lon=-110.7624 https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=43.4802&lon=-1...
  - justtopost 8y ago
    That is nowhere near the breadth or detail of actual noaa data, more of a few legacy services. Its a travesty this is all we get.
  - yardie 8y ago
    > You can get an emergency radio capable of receiving VHF NOAA weather alerts. Apparently this was grandfathered in a long time ago. NOAA is only allowed to send weather reports by radio and on specific frequencies. Doing the same with the internet, why that would be communism!
    - npo_ 8y ago
      And for the record, NOAA Weather Radio is pretty cool -- I like to get my weather from it when I'm at home. I'm right in Boston, and I can pickup transmissions from the Blue Hill Observatory with my cheap Baofeng.
    - 8note 8y ago
      I imagine they'll lose that eventually, so that the radio band can be privatized
- kwindla 8y ago
  Yes! The Michael Lewis book is called _The Fifth Risk_, and it's an amazing read. It's a series of contrasting stories: earnest government workers who have dedicated their careers to protecting all of us from threats like nuclear proliferation, on the one hand, and on the other politicians and narrowly interested lobbyists who view government as either a threat to their self-interest or an opportunity to tilt the economic playing field. https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Risk-Michael-Lewis/dp/1324002646 https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Risk-Michael-Lewis/dp/132400264... From the NPR review of the book: > Take Trump's choice to head National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Commerce Department agency that, among other responsibilities, oversees the National Weather Service. For that critical position, Trump has chosen Barry Myers, who is CEO of the private forecasting service AccuWeather. As Lewis points out, AccuWeather repackages the weather service's own data and sells it to private concerns for a profit. Myers at one time argued that "the government should get out of the forecasting business." In other words, you want to know if it's going to rain tomorrow? Or which way that hurricane is tracking? Well, buy our app, or subscribe to our forecasts. Myers has yet to be confirmed. https://www.npr.org/2018/10/02/652563904/the-fifth-risk-paints-a-portrait-of-a-government-led-by-the-uninterested https://www.npr.org/2018/10/02/652563904/the-fifth-risk-pain...
kevin_b_er 8y ago
Yes. Accuweather has long lobbied to prevent the services the people pay for from providing them with information. In 2017, the current administration named the lobbyist and co-owner of Accuweather, who's fought the NWS as the head of the NOAA, the parent organization of the NWS: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-14/trump-s-pick-to-lead-weather-agency-spent-30-years-fighting-it https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-14/trump-s-p... The fox watches the henhouse when it comes to your weather. Your taxes will pay for Accuweather's profit at your expense.
dosy 8y ago
this is stupid. shouldn't free market competition include government services?
- kristopolous 8y ago
  Free market dogma is a scam: an intellectual framework invented to rationalize a position. There's a long history of people doing these things such as with monarchist theory or eugenics for colonialism and slavery. People have theories and frameworks to justify misogyny, child abuse and being harsh to homeless people. In this case it's an ability to do whatever you want to make money without any oversight, laws, restrictions, or limitations. Being against unethical things such as sweatshops, lying to consumers, or vulture capitalism is itself unethical because it "interferes with the market" oh dear! It's a symmetrical theoretical framework with beautiful equations to rationalize an otherwise indefensible power structure and insulate reprehensible criminal behavior as essentially the Unquestionable Divine Will. When anyone justifies things through purity or perfection arguments they're likely pulling a fast one on you. In fact it's this fast one. This exact technique.
  - dosy 8y ago
    I definitely agree that the intentions of the ruling elite will be formalized into nice-sounding theories, irrespective of their faithfulness to reality or their utility outside of supporting the system of rule. Marxism for example and you can replace ruling elite, with people who want to be that. Then you get notions like identity politics, feminism, cultural Marxism, misandry, racism. There's an interesting second order effect here as well, that drives the narrative aggression and dissent shaming today. Democracies need to create as many of these competing theories as they can to keep people locked in constant conflict and division.
    - spinach 8y ago
      How can it be that ideologies such as 'racism' and 'identity politics' are only born from people who want to be the elite? (If this is indeed what you are saying) Was not America's founding based on identity politics and racism by white Christian people? How is the genocide of indigenous people and enslavement of black people not racism and identity politics? Besides that, I don't think racism and feminism stems from 'wanting' to be elite. People who experience racism just don't want to be killed and threatened, women just want the same opportunities and to be able to feel safe and not be harassed randomly.
aaaaaar 8y ago
By what power vested in the senator can they slap NOAA's wrist? Is it just the importance and influence by being a senator? Or is there some direct control? Or via a threat to cut funding?

nemo44x 8y ago

Michael Lewis wrote about the NOAA and this exact type of thing in his last book. In essence the NOAA spends lots of tax payer money to collect weather data but can’t do much with it other than give it away exclusively to a handful of entities that can repackage and sell it. The eventual dystopian end state could be where the NOAA can’t alert people to tornados and only those subscribing to a weather service would be alerted to get to safety.

wbl 8y ago
Have you seen weather.gov? They do provide free products.
- kevin_b_er 8y ago
  For now. The NOAA is headed now by a man who spent 30 years trying to hobble the NWS.
moftz 8y ago
You can get an emergency radio capable of receiving VHF NOAA weather alerts. There is typically at least one of the frequencies within range where ever you are. You can subscribe to weather alerts through RSS on their site as well. https://alerts.weather.gov/ https://alerts.weather.gov/ You can even pass lat/long points to the forecast page and it will pull up the closest weather station, even points in the ocean work. https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=43.4802&lon=-110.7624 https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=43.4802&lon=-1...
- justtopost 8y ago
  That is nowhere near the breadth or detail of actual noaa data, more of a few legacy services. Its a travesty this is all we get.
- yardie 8y ago
  > You can get an emergency radio capable of receiving VHF NOAA weather alerts. Apparently this was grandfathered in a long time ago. NOAA is only allowed to send weather reports by radio and on specific frequencies. Doing the same with the internet, why that would be communism!
  - npo_ 8y ago
    And for the record, NOAA Weather Radio is pretty cool -- I like to get my weather from it when I'm at home. I'm right in Boston, and I can pickup transmissions from the Blue Hill Observatory with my cheap Baofeng.
  - 8note 8y ago
    I imagine they'll lose that eventually, so that the radio band can be privatized
kwindla 8y ago
Yes! The Michael Lewis book is called _The Fifth Risk_, and it's an amazing read. It's a series of contrasting stories: earnest government workers who have dedicated their careers to protecting all of us from threats like nuclear proliferation, on the one hand, and on the other politicians and narrowly interested lobbyists who view government as either a threat to their self-interest or an opportunity to tilt the economic playing field. https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Risk-Michael-Lewis/dp/1324002646 https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Risk-Michael-Lewis/dp/132400264... From the NPR review of the book: > Take Trump's choice to head National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Commerce Department agency that, among other responsibilities, oversees the National Weather Service. For that critical position, Trump has chosen Barry Myers, who is CEO of the private forecasting service AccuWeather. As Lewis points out, AccuWeather repackages the weather service's own data and sells it to private concerns for a profit. Myers at one time argued that "the government should get out of the forecasting business." In other words, you want to know if it's going to rain tomorrow? Or which way that hurricane is tracking? Well, buy our app, or subscribe to our forecasts. Myers has yet to be confirmed. https://www.npr.org/2018/10/02/652563904/the-fifth-risk-paints-a-portrait-of-a-government-led-by-the-uninterested https://www.npr.org/2018/10/02/652563904/the-fifth-risk-pain...

kevin_b_er 8y ago

Yes. Accuweather has long lobbied to prevent the services the people pay for from providing them with information. In 2017, the current administration named the lobbyist and co-owner of Accuweather, who's fought the NWS as the head of the NOAA, the parent organization of the NWS: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-14/trump-s-pick-to-lead-weather-agency-spent-30-years-fighting-it https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-14/trump-s-p... The fox watches the henhouse when it comes to your weather. Your taxes will pay for Accuweather's profit at your expense.

dosy 8y ago

this is stupid. shouldn't free market competition include government services?

kristopolous 8y ago
Free market dogma is a scam: an intellectual framework invented to rationalize a position. There's a long history of people doing these things such as with monarchist theory or eugenics for colonialism and slavery. People have theories and frameworks to justify misogyny, child abuse and being harsh to homeless people. In this case it's an ability to do whatever you want to make money without any oversight, laws, restrictions, or limitations. Being against unethical things such as sweatshops, lying to consumers, or vulture capitalism is itself unethical because it "interferes with the market" oh dear! It's a symmetrical theoretical framework with beautiful equations to rationalize an otherwise indefensible power structure and insulate reprehensible criminal behavior as essentially the Unquestionable Divine Will. When anyone justifies things through purity or perfection arguments they're likely pulling a fast one on you. In fact it's this fast one. This exact technique.
- dosy 8y ago
  I definitely agree that the intentions of the ruling elite will be formalized into nice-sounding theories, irrespective of their faithfulness to reality or their utility outside of supporting the system of rule. Marxism for example and you can replace ruling elite, with people who want to be that. Then you get notions like identity politics, feminism, cultural Marxism, misandry, racism. There's an interesting second order effect here as well, that drives the narrative aggression and dissent shaming today. Democracies need to create as many of these competing theories as they can to keep people locked in constant conflict and division.
  - spinach 8y ago
    How can it be that ideologies such as 'racism' and 'identity politics' are only born from people who want to be the elite? (If this is indeed what you are saying) Was not America's founding based on identity politics and racism by white Christian people? How is the genocide of indigenous people and enslavement of black people not racism and identity politics? Besides that, I don't think racism and feminism stems from 'wanting' to be elite. People who experience racism just don't want to be killed and threatened, women just want the same opportunities and to be able to feel safe and not be harassed randomly.

aaaaaar 8y ago

By what power vested in the senator can they slap NOAA's wrist? Is it just the importance and influence by being a senator? Or is there some direct control? Or via a threat to cut funding?