8 ms·

As a life long Mac user, if option 3 is removed i will be leaving for Linux.

mark_l_watson 8y ago
Yup. I have a MacBook and a really nice Linux laptop. While I work a little faster in the Mac, it feels good running Linux. I don’t think I would be OK with option 3 - agree with you. EDIT: I am fine with a sandbox for iOS, not macOS.
- teamspirit 8y ago
  This is why I still haven't bought a tablet. I was really excited to get the latest iPad with the A12 bionic, then I started looking into open source software (only really need two: password store and ssh) and realized it essentially doesn't exist. And with the current state of Android tablets, I guess I just won't be getting one for a while.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    There are plenty of SSH and password management apps on iOS. Did they not work for you?
    - kbenson 8y ago
      Open Source is what he said doesn't exist. I'm not sure, because it's been a while since I paid attention, but unless a project takes it upon themselves to go through the process of becoming an Apple Developer (do they need to decide on a person, or form a non-profit, or can they somehow register as a non-legally recognized organization?), how doe they distribute a fully open source version with some assurance that what you're running on the device is what's in the open source repo? I'm much less interested in running someone's custom port of OpenSSH to work with a phone UI than I would be to run some official port by the OpenSSH/OpenBSD developers. How hard is it for someone to harvest private keys, passwords and remote IPs in an app like that? Not very hard at all. Breaking the chain of trust between the repo and what I can build myself (or trust a third party to do, such as a linux distro) makes it much less appealing.
  - szc 8y ago
    For an open source ssh client there is the "Blink Shell", which can be purchased from the App store -or- you can build it yourself from source. I am unsure if the developers directly get any money when you purchase it from the app store, but they do mention the paid app with the source here <https://github.com/blinksh/blink> https://github.com/blinksh/blink>. It isn't often that I find myself needing to use an iPad/iPhone with SSH, but I've used WebSSH (perhaps no longer under active development) and Coda in the past. I have not done any real research for open source password managers. But a quick search did find <https://opensource.com/article/16/12/password-managers> https://opensource.com/article/16/12/password-managers> which lists at least one. Personally I am very happy and frequent user of 1Password (by Agile Bits) across various devices.
  - eugeniub 8y ago
    The Bitwarden password vault iOS app is open source.
mikenew 8y ago
Nowadays, when I hold macOS, it doesn't bring me joy. I moved on to Linux a few years ago. No regrets.
- jorvi 8y ago
  I installed Kubuntu 18.10 on my MacBook Pro 2015 13" (12,1) and sleep doesn't work properly because of the USB3 controller. The MacBook will suspend correctly from a cold boot, but every suspend after that the MacBook immediately wakes up as soon as it successfully suspended. This a is a common issue[1]. As long as I still can't trust Linux to successfully deal with suspending without hacks, I'm not gonna move over. It needs to be bulletproof that if I close my laptop, put it in a bag, and then later open that bag my laptop A. wakes up and B. hasn't overheated and drained the battery. macOS gives that peace of mind, and I feel that is paramount for a laptop to be usable. I can't believe this is still not a fixed problem in the Linux world in general, and especially on a 4 year old device. [1] https://joshtronic.com/2017/03/13/getting-suspend-in-linux-working-on-a-macbook-pro/ https://joshtronic.com/2017/03/13/getting-suspend-in-linux-w...
  - bgorman 8y ago
    No one is making any money getting Linux sleep to work on a Macbook Pro 2015. That is why it doesn't work. Sleep can work on Linux, but it is hardware/driver specific. That is why you should only buy hardware where there vendor invests in proper support.
    - metildaa 8y ago
      Either the vendor needs to invest in support, or you need the community to come together and build support like with Allwinner chips (which are dirt cheap, hence people building mainline, blobless support). Apple doesn't invest in Linux kernel support, and their userbase isn't motivated to do so either :/
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      As if. My Asus Linux supported netbook wasn't properly a flawless experience and those beautiful AMD open source drivers mean I will never get back the same OpenGL feature level and hardware acceleration provided by fxgl, that I had at sale time.
marssaxman 8y ago
Why wait? You can do it gradually. I've been using Macs since 1985, and I still have one on my desk at work, but I noticed a few years ago that I'd gravitated toward doing most everything on Linux without really thinking about it. Just get a Thinkpad or something, put Ubuntu or Mint on it, and see how it feels.
- Animats 8y ago
  Why wait? Indeed. I made the switch years ago and there's less hassle on the Linux side. The big vendors are just so control-oriented now.
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  Why wait? Because I don't want Linux. MacOS largely still just works and Linux is moving away from its strengths as quickly as possible. I don't want systemd. I don't want pulse audio. I don't want Wayland. Linux's strength, for me, has been that it's unixy. If I'm moving to a non-unixy setup, like Linux is becoming, I want it to be as polished and well supported as possible. Linux, simply put, is none of those. And, quite frankly, I don't want a Thinkpad (and I can't stand that eraser tip pointing thing). I bought a 2015 rMBP late last year and cross shopped offerings from Dell, Lenovo, and one of those Linux laptop companies whose name is escaping me right now. The Mac won out and didn't command a premium over comparably specced alternatives. I'll spare the ranting about the Gnome 3, new GIMP UI and systemd in general (but these are both major issues for me and symptomatic of a culture I don't want to buy into). I recently tried to set up a Pi Zero with an Audioquest DragonFly DAC. The DAC just works in FreeBSD and MacOS with no hassle. I was able to tweak ALSA to get sound out of it, but shairport-sync can't set the volume (which works just fine on FreeBSD). WiFi was a struggle as well. I forgot what an archaic mess of procfs tunables and bizarre config files Linux on the desktop can be, and I don't want to spend my days debugging my desktop system. One of my coworkers at megacorp got the officially sanctioned Linux laptop (some Dell thing). Like a good end user he installed updates as they became available. Turns out megacorp bought the Windows version of the laptop and installed Linux on it. Well, my coworker installed some firmware updates that promptly re-enabled secure boot borking his system. He lost a day trying to figure out what happened (Dell wouldn't support Linux on it and corporate IT was entirely indifferent). I don't want to dodge a minefield masquerading as a support matrix. It seems like it's been the year of the Linux on the desktop for most of my adult life. Edit: Downvotes don't win over users.
rsync 8y ago
"As a life long Mac user, if option 3 is removed i will be leaving for Linux." I agree, however I suspect I will still by mac hardware. So, for me, it's really not a dollar-vote against this behavior ... unfortunately ...

Yup. I have a MacBook and a really nice Linux laptop. While I work a little faster in the Mac, it feels good running Linux. I don’t think I would be OK with option 3 - agree with you. EDIT: I am fine with a sandbox for iOS, not macOS.

teamspirit 8y ago
This is why I still haven't bought a tablet. I was really excited to get the latest iPad with the A12 bionic, then I started looking into open source software (only really need two: password store and ssh) and realized it essentially doesn't exist. And with the current state of Android tablets, I guess I just won't be getting one for a while.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  There are plenty of SSH and password management apps on iOS. Did they not work for you?
  - kbenson 8y ago
    Open Source is what he said doesn't exist. I'm not sure, because it's been a while since I paid attention, but unless a project takes it upon themselves to go through the process of becoming an Apple Developer (do they need to decide on a person, or form a non-profit, or can they somehow register as a non-legally recognized organization?), how doe they distribute a fully open source version with some assurance that what you're running on the device is what's in the open source repo? I'm much less interested in running someone's custom port of OpenSSH to work with a phone UI than I would be to run some official port by the OpenSSH/OpenBSD developers. How hard is it for someone to harvest private keys, passwords and remote IPs in an app like that? Not very hard at all. Breaking the chain of trust between the repo and what I can build myself (or trust a third party to do, such as a linux distro) makes it much less appealing.
- szc 8y ago
  For an open source ssh client there is the "Blink Shell", which can be purchased from the App store -or- you can build it yourself from source. I am unsure if the developers directly get any money when you purchase it from the app store, but they do mention the paid app with the source here <https://github.com/blinksh/blink> https://github.com/blinksh/blink>. It isn't often that I find myself needing to use an iPad/iPhone with SSH, but I've used WebSSH (perhaps no longer under active development) and Coda in the past. I have not done any real research for open source password managers. But a quick search did find <https://opensource.com/article/16/12/password-managers> https://opensource.com/article/16/12/password-managers> which lists at least one. Personally I am very happy and frequent user of 1Password (by Agile Bits) across various devices.
- eugeniub 8y ago
  The Bitwarden password vault iOS app is open source.

mikenew 8y ago

Nowadays, when I hold macOS, it doesn't bring me joy. I moved on to Linux a few years ago. No regrets.

jorvi 8y ago
I installed Kubuntu 18.10 on my MacBook Pro 2015 13" (12,1) and sleep doesn't work properly because of the USB3 controller. The MacBook will suspend correctly from a cold boot, but every suspend after that the MacBook immediately wakes up as soon as it successfully suspended. This a is a common issue[1]. As long as I still can't trust Linux to successfully deal with suspending without hacks, I'm not gonna move over. It needs to be bulletproof that if I close my laptop, put it in a bag, and then later open that bag my laptop A. wakes up and B. hasn't overheated and drained the battery. macOS gives that peace of mind, and I feel that is paramount for a laptop to be usable. I can't believe this is still not a fixed problem in the Linux world in general, and especially on a 4 year old device. [1] https://joshtronic.com/2017/03/13/getting-suspend-in-linux-working-on-a-macbook-pro/ https://joshtronic.com/2017/03/13/getting-suspend-in-linux-w...
- bgorman 8y ago
  No one is making any money getting Linux sleep to work on a Macbook Pro 2015. That is why it doesn't work. Sleep can work on Linux, but it is hardware/driver specific. That is why you should only buy hardware where there vendor invests in proper support.
  - metildaa 8y ago
    Either the vendor needs to invest in support, or you need the community to come together and build support like with Allwinner chips (which are dirt cheap, hence people building mainline, blobless support). Apple doesn't invest in Linux kernel support, and their userbase isn't motivated to do so either :/
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    As if. My Asus Linux supported netbook wasn't properly a flawless experience and those beautiful AMD open source drivers mean I will never get back the same OpenGL feature level and hardware acceleration provided by fxgl, that I had at sale time.

marssaxman 8y ago

Why wait? You can do it gradually. I've been using Macs since 1985, and I still have one on my desk at work, but I noticed a few years ago that I'd gravitated toward doing most everything on Linux without really thinking about it. Just get a Thinkpad or something, put Ubuntu or Mint on it, and see how it feels.

Animats 8y ago
Why wait? Indeed. I made the switch years ago and there's less hassle on the Linux side. The big vendors are just so control-oriented now.
inferiorhuman 8y ago
Why wait? Because I don't want Linux. MacOS largely still just works and Linux is moving away from its strengths as quickly as possible. I don't want systemd. I don't want pulse audio. I don't want Wayland. Linux's strength, for me, has been that it's unixy. If I'm moving to a non-unixy setup, like Linux is becoming, I want it to be as polished and well supported as possible. Linux, simply put, is none of those. And, quite frankly, I don't want a Thinkpad (and I can't stand that eraser tip pointing thing). I bought a 2015 rMBP late last year and cross shopped offerings from Dell, Lenovo, and one of those Linux laptop companies whose name is escaping me right now. The Mac won out and didn't command a premium over comparably specced alternatives. I'll spare the ranting about the Gnome 3, new GIMP UI and systemd in general (but these are both major issues for me and symptomatic of a culture I don't want to buy into). I recently tried to set up a Pi Zero with an Audioquest DragonFly DAC. The DAC just works in FreeBSD and MacOS with no hassle. I was able to tweak ALSA to get sound out of it, but shairport-sync can't set the volume (which works just fine on FreeBSD). WiFi was a struggle as well. I forgot what an archaic mess of procfs tunables and bizarre config files Linux on the desktop can be, and I don't want to spend my days debugging my desktop system. One of my coworkers at megacorp got the officially sanctioned Linux laptop (some Dell thing). Like a good end user he installed updates as they became available. Turns out megacorp bought the Windows version of the laptop and installed Linux on it. Well, my coworker installed some firmware updates that promptly re-enabled secure boot borking his system. He lost a day trying to figure out what happened (Dell wouldn't support Linux on it and corporate IT was entirely indifferent). I don't want to dodge a minefield masquerading as a support matrix. It seems like it's been the year of the Linux on the desktop for most of my adult life. Edit: Downvotes don't win over users.

rsync 8y ago

"As a life long Mac user, if option 3 is removed i will be leaving for Linux." I agree, however I suspect I will still by mac hardware. So, for me, it's really not a dollar-vote against this behavior ... unfortunately ...