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> cash-strapped homeowners desperate enough to “Damage It Yourself” I find it a sad statement that one suggests the primary reason for DIY is out of desperatio

> cash-strapped homeowners desperate enough to “Damage It Yourself” I find it a sad statement that one suggests the primary reason for DIY is out of desperation - surely I am not alone in doing many home and auto maintenance tasks myself out of primarily the enjoyment and satisfaction of learning and executing a new skill? Sure, /r/DIWhy is full of examples of ill-advised and unsafe DIY attempts, typically in electrical, plumbing, and deck-laying, but that doesn't mean that we should discourage people from learning the basics of low-risk home maintenance such as painting, tiling, flooring, etc. On the contrary I believe the reward one feels from accomplishing such tasks oneself and with the help of friends or family can have a powerful positive emotional effect on society.

ryandrake 8y ago
In addition to the educational and satisfaction benefits (which I also agree with), I look at it this way: my standard of living is better because I do everything myself. What others spend on hiring painters, movers, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, auto mechanics, I save, and it allows me to live like someone who makes quite a bit more than I do. I’ve got a modest tech salary, and wouldn’t call myself desperate or cash strapped—just frugal and keen to optimize every penny.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  > to live like someone who makes quite a bit more than I do That's kind of misleading, because it ignores the value of your labor. You work more hours, and you get a lifestyle improvement that can be measured in dollars. You're not preventing costs, you're changing how you pay. If that's optimal in your specific case then great! But it's easy to imagine a person where it's not optimal at all. If Bob saves $X for every hour he spends on his house, and Bob makes $3X at his job, and he's equally happy doing either kind of labor, then Bob is a fool to do multi-hour household jobs himself. Using time to save dollars is a tool, one that can be used or misused. You want to optimize lifestyle vs. effort, not lifestyle vs. nominal salary.
  - caymanjim 8y ago
    Most tech workers make a salary. Your labor has no financial value if it's "paint my house" vs "watch TV".
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      That's true in a very short term sense. Over the long term you can either find some freelancing hours or get a job that offers a different expectation of worked hours and a different amount of pay. So if you're out of balance you can fix it to do more of the job you want and have more leisure hours too. Or less of the job you don't want.
      - ryandrake 8y ago
        I concluded the same as caymanjim. I’m a firm believer in “Your spare time is only worth money if you’d otherwise be making money.” I’m not paid hourly, so the opportunity cost of my spare time is $0, and like many tech companies, mine forbids freelancing/moonlighting. The math works out to favor DIY in my case but it’s obviously not for everyone. If I had a job where more hours directly translated into more money, 1. I would drop DIY projects and 2. I would probably become a workaholic.
        Dylan16807 8y ago
        Okay, but considering that it could save you a huge amount of time overall, next time you're looking for a job consider searching harder for one that has paid overtime opportunities. (But not enough to enable workaholism.)
- bradknowles 8y ago
  If you've got the necessary talent and skill, and you've done your homework, then you're better off with DIY. But few have the talent. And that skill usually comes from making mistakes and screwing stuff up on a previous job. And very few people are willing and able to do the homework.
qubex 8y ago
My characterisation of DIY as “Damage It Yourself” might seem a bit mean, but it very much represents the (admittedly biased) statistical feedback we as a sector get from those who choose this route. As somebody remarks further down, competence in these kinds of home-maintenance activities generally derives from experience “earned the hard way”. Obviously DIY and the attendant issues are entirely absent from the industrial sector, which I spend most of my time frequenting.

ryandrake 8y ago

In addition to the educational and satisfaction benefits (which I also agree with), I look at it this way: my standard of living is better because I do everything myself. What others spend on hiring painters, movers, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, auto mechanics, I save, and it allows me to live like someone who makes quite a bit more than I do. I’ve got a modest tech salary, and wouldn’t call myself desperate or cash strapped—just frugal and keen to optimize every penny.

Dylan16807 8y ago
> to live like someone who makes quite a bit more than I do That's kind of misleading, because it ignores the value of your labor. You work more hours, and you get a lifestyle improvement that can be measured in dollars. You're not preventing costs, you're changing how you pay. If that's optimal in your specific case then great! But it's easy to imagine a person where it's not optimal at all. If Bob saves $X for every hour he spends on his house, and Bob makes $3X at his job, and he's equally happy doing either kind of labor, then Bob is a fool to do multi-hour household jobs himself. Using time to save dollars is a tool, one that can be used or misused. You want to optimize lifestyle vs. effort, not lifestyle vs. nominal salary.
- caymanjim 8y ago
  Most tech workers make a salary. Your labor has no financial value if it's "paint my house" vs "watch TV".
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    That's true in a very short term sense. Over the long term you can either find some freelancing hours or get a job that offers a different expectation of worked hours and a different amount of pay. So if you're out of balance you can fix it to do more of the job you want and have more leisure hours too. Or less of the job you don't want.
    - ryandrake 8y ago
      I concluded the same as caymanjim. I’m a firm believer in “Your spare time is only worth money if you’d otherwise be making money.” I’m not paid hourly, so the opportunity cost of my spare time is $0, and like many tech companies, mine forbids freelancing/moonlighting. The math works out to favor DIY in my case but it’s obviously not for everyone. If I had a job where more hours directly translated into more money, 1. I would drop DIY projects and 2. I would probably become a workaholic.
      - Dylan16807 8y ago
        Okay, but considering that it could save you a huge amount of time overall, next time you're looking for a job consider searching harder for one that has paid overtime opportunities. (But not enough to enable workaholism.)
bradknowles 8y ago
If you've got the necessary talent and skill, and you've done your homework, then you're better off with DIY. But few have the talent. And that skill usually comes from making mistakes and screwing stuff up on a previous job. And very few people are willing and able to do the homework.

qubex 8y ago

My characterisation of DIY as “Damage It Yourself” might seem a bit mean, but it very much represents the (admittedly biased) statistical feedback we as a sector get from those who choose this route. As somebody remarks further down, competence in these kinds of home-maintenance activities generally derives from experience “earned the hard way”. Obviously DIY and the attendant issues are entirely absent from the industrial sector, which I spend most of my time frequenting.