7 ms·

I've been on a ketogenic diet for a year now and sleep has been the biggest thing. I was a light, restless sleeper and I noticed very quickly how how much bette

by iamben 8y ago

I've been on a ketogenic diet for a year now and sleep has been the biggest thing. I was a light, restless sleeper and I noticed very quickly how how much better my sleep got. I'd fall asleep quicker and it feels (and tracks) deeper. I don't wake as much, sweat nearly as much when I sleep and wake up feeling far more rested. Sleep aside, I don't sweat nearly as much during the day and I've shaken almost most all the IBS related problems I had. Feels a bit like a miracle. Trouble is, I wish (much like the article) I could understand exactly what it was that I cut out that made the biggest difference. Bread? Alliums? Fructose? I guess the only way would be to reintroduce things slowly and test, or revert back to a carb heavy diet and remove stuff one by one... But when you're (finally) feeling great you don't want to mess it up :-/

sametmax 8y ago
I have always had great sleep, so for me it's easy to notice when my sleep is affected since it's so rare. Top 3: - weight. The fatter i get, the worse i sleep. And it's a vicious circle. - rafined sugar. Too much of it will make me restless, including the sweating you mentioned, but also accelerated cardio respiratory rythm. - things agressive on the intestine such as too much milk (i'm NOT lactose intolerant) Screens, late intense lights and coffee seldom affect my sleep, although the later is starting to now that i'm getting older.
- iamben 8y ago
  I think no refined sugar will be my starting point if and when I ever reintroduce carbs. I've always exercised pretty consistently, I didn't have much weight to lose when I started the diet, and I still eat a load of cheese - so I think it's probably my best guess as a starting point. Coffee is a funny one - I've never been able to make a direct correlation between that and sleep (it doesn't seem to have too much effect), but when I cut coffee down to (for the most part) a single cup in the morning, I now notice that a second cup will give me jittery legs.
  - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
    I'd argue cutting refined sugar is good for everyone, and probably the easiest place to start when you're trying to lose weight / live more healthily. Replace sugary coke with a sugar free version, or put less sugar in coffee (that's how I started); the cravings, if you have them, will gradually diminish. I believe cheese fits in a keto diet as well. If you want to adjust that a bit, go for hard / old cheese instead of soft ones. Also go for real cheese, none of that "sandwich slices" stuff in unrefrigerated plastic packaging.
pumanoir 8y ago
Sounds super interesting. Can you provide a link or a quick list of the things that you eat for your diet. I’m currently having great difficulty sleeping due to IBS.
- iamben 8y ago
  Sure. Can't give you an exact list, but start with https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq and then take a look at dietdoctor.com who have a 2 week (I think) intro to keto which gives you some decent variation with keto food (and worked really well for a friend of mine). I use MyFitnessPal to track what I eat and keep below 20g of net carbs every day (usually coming in around 10-15). Good luck with it - IBS is absolutely miserable.
- peteretep 8y ago
  Do you drink? I gave up drinking for a few years for weight reasons, and my IBS fixed itself, and didn't come back when I started drinking again.
  - iamben 8y ago
    Beer certainly exacerbated my symptoms. Alcohol has become a much-less-often thing for me (mostly because you can't really have 'a quick pint'). I've benefitted most mentally here though, I think? You don't realise how often you have that post drinking booze-blues (even in the most minor way) until you don't have it very often. Coincidentally, cleaner alcohol (vodka) seems to minimise the mental and physical hangovers far more than drinking beer.
  - pumanoir 8y ago
    I pretty much don't. Although I like to taste a glass of different types of beer when I go to a new region (here in Europe). I have noticed that it does trigger the IBS symptoms roughly 40% of the time. Thanks for the comment. I think I'll give up on the tasting because like the parent mentioned IBS is miserable.
fezz 8y ago
I had the same experience with a fasting/keto regimen. The fasting had a big impact on how deep my sleep was. At times it almost felt like coming out of anesthesia at the hospital.
Aromasin 8y ago
I've found with me that, after trying keto for ages and loving how I felt but hating the diet itself, I managed to pin point the issue down to grains. Any form of grain, be it rice, wheat, barley, oats etc, all seemed to mess me up big style. I'n now on a diet of mostly fruit, nuts, beans, seeds and tubers and I'm better than I was on keto on almost every measurable factor. I think cutting out the carbs initially improves the lives of most people because it's a group of food that contains the biggest offenders in terms of IBS related trigger, but it's rarely carbohydrate in itself. In terms of reintroducing foods, don't go back to carbs and cut back! You're just setting yourself up to fail. Just reintroduce carbs slowly up. Start with tubers and root veg, as from what I've read they're often the easiest in terms of digestion. Then move on to fruits, then nuts, then seeds, then finish with grains. It could well be you're gluten intolerant so there are only a few types of grain you're sensitive to.
- dr_dshiv 8y ago
  Maybe it is glycemic load? I completely agree, but I get hit hard by sugars, bread, mashed potatoes and cheap fries (really good fries I justify).
  - bitL 8y ago
    If you still want to enjoy fries, get an air fryer and just spray sliced potatoes with a very small amount of olive oil. Then cook only up to temperature of 250F/120C to prevent acrylamide from forming (it might take 30-60 minutes to be finished). I used to be hit hard by regular fries (was feeling sick for a day, felt them staying in my stomach for a while etc.) until I switched to the aforementioned method. Taste is almost the same, but digestion is unproblematic now.
  - spraak 8y ago
    Processed carbohydrates will by definition hit you hard. Added oil is also hard. Try intact grains, e.g. rice, quinoa, millet, barley, etc. Even whole wheat bread or pasta will hit harder than boiled wheat grains.
    - 8y ago
laforge 8y ago
Maybe you want to consider to switch to a whole food plant based diet. Other than the other „lifestyle“ diets such as low carb, the plant based is actually backed by science. A good source is nutritionfacts.org and the book „how not to die“ by the same author. If you asked me to switch two months ago, I‘d say no way. But the science behind it convinced me to try it and it is so much easier than expected.
- iamben 8y ago
  Appreciate the comment; I tried veganism as a test for a month a few years ago and didn't get on with it at all. Keto seems to work pretty well for me - I enjoy the food and there's plenty of science to geek out on :-)
- JanSt 8y ago
  The science is actually very shaky. I've looked at the first 30 or so studies Greger cites and they often seem not to give (with statistical significance or at all) what he seems to claim. There are also many duplicated sources to increase the citation page count. He also cherry-picks very strongly.
- coldtea 8y ago
  If the science is a private website and a book by the same person, it's not really "science". And by mixing and matching different research papers, any diet peddler/author/etc can make it appear as their specific diet is "backed by science" (when it's just a bunch of disparate papers in its favor, without context -- e.g. later responses to those papers, quality and reproducibility, papers that study the exact opposite claims and also work, etc). The only real science is not in studies (that are a dime a dozen, of widely different quality, and most are shoddily done and discredited by later studies), but in what's accepted by the nutritionist/medical professionals as nutrition 101.
  - laforge 8y ago
    Generally I agree, but I don't think that this applies to nutritionfacts.org. The website is not by a single individual with commercial interests. All revenue from the book goes to his foundation, which runs the website. And the book has round about 100 pages of references. Here is a video where he explains how he does his research and how the videos are created: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/behind-the-scenes-at-nutritionfacts-org/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/behind-the-scenes-at-nutrit...
devilmoon 8y ago
This sounds quite interesting to me, have you tried a FODMAP diet for your IBS symptoms before switching to keto? I've been going back and forth on FODMAPs for the last year and a half to try and pinpoint what it is that triggers my symptoms, however no matter how "cleanly" I eat I often end up getting symptoms from foods that are supposedly safe for me (or no symptoms at all from stuff that a few months ago would've given me days of problems). I'm looking to switch it up a bit since it doesn't seem like FODMAP is a viable long term solution and it's not solving my problems entirely, would you recommend looking into keto?
- iamben 8y ago
  I never tried a FODMAP diet - I guess at the time it just seemed _too_ restrictive. I suppose keto is just as restrictive, but it's like anything right? You're never going to be able to give up smoking until you're ready to give up smoking. I was just at a point in life where I could embrace something and it worked for me. Based on how _I_ feel, I'd definitely recommend it. But I'm (definitely) not a doctor, and you're (most probably) not me(!), so I can't tell you whether it would work for you or not. That said, there are some fabulous communities, a lot of advice, data and science about keto though - have a read of some and if you think it fits, give it a go and see how you feel :-)
bitL 8y ago
Maybe pre-diabetes? https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/features/diabetes-lack-of-sleep#1 https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/features/diabetes-lack-of-sle...
- iamben 8y ago
  Nah, I've had that checked multiple times.
mtw 8y ago
I recommend discussing with a medical professional if you sweat. Sweat means inflammation, fever or slight fever. It could be nothing but it could be also symptoms of pre-diabetes type 2, cancer or other chronic disease.
- an_ko 8y ago
  It could also mean your duvet is too thick, or that it's summer...
  - mtw 8y ago
    yes, that's true. But he also states that he sweats more depending on food. That means his body has an inflammation reaction towards certain foods. Could be sugar/refined grains (which untreated could lead to diabetes type ii), other people have inflammation when eating BBQ red meat (which increases risks of cancer)
happy4crazy 8y ago
Interesting! I have the opposite experience. I've gone on a bunch of very low-carb diets, maybe ten at this point (not sure if they were exactly ketogenic or not), and I've enjoyed them. But every time I try low-carb, my sleep gets extremely light (I'll wake up 3 or 4 times a night), I sleep a couple hours less than normal, and I get weirdly vivid dreams. It's always the weird sleep that makes me quit the diet.
slothtrop 8y ago
I wonder if it's symptomatic of low-fat diets, or insulin resistance from too many carbs. Apparently going very low-carb can cause insomnia for some people as well. Self-experimenting is important I guess. I'm faring better with my nutritional intake.

by iamben 8y ago

sametmax 8y ago

I have always had great sleep, so for me it's easy to notice when my sleep is affected since it's so rare. Top 3: - weight. The fatter i get, the worse i sleep. And it's a vicious circle. - rafined sugar. Too much of it will make me restless, including the sweating you mentioned, but also accelerated cardio respiratory rythm. - things agressive on the intestine such as too much milk (i'm NOT lactose intolerant) Screens, late intense lights and coffee seldom affect my sleep, although the later is starting to now that i'm getting older.

iamben 8y ago
I think no refined sugar will be my starting point if and when I ever reintroduce carbs. I've always exercised pretty consistently, I didn't have much weight to lose when I started the diet, and I still eat a load of cheese - so I think it's probably my best guess as a starting point. Coffee is a funny one - I've never been able to make a direct correlation between that and sleep (it doesn't seem to have too much effect), but when I cut coffee down to (for the most part) a single cup in the morning, I now notice that a second cup will give me jittery legs.
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  I'd argue cutting refined sugar is good for everyone, and probably the easiest place to start when you're trying to lose weight / live more healthily. Replace sugary coke with a sugar free version, or put less sugar in coffee (that's how I started); the cravings, if you have them, will gradually diminish. I believe cheese fits in a keto diet as well. If you want to adjust that a bit, go for hard / old cheese instead of soft ones. Also go for real cheese, none of that "sandwich slices" stuff in unrefrigerated plastic packaging.

pumanoir 8y ago

Sounds super interesting. Can you provide a link or a quick list of the things that you eat for your diet. I’m currently having great difficulty sleeping due to IBS.

iamben 8y ago
Sure. Can't give you an exact list, but start with https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq and then take a look at dietdoctor.com who have a 2 week (I think) intro to keto which gives you some decent variation with keto food (and worked really well for a friend of mine). I use MyFitnessPal to track what I eat and keep below 20g of net carbs every day (usually coming in around 10-15). Good luck with it - IBS is absolutely miserable.
peteretep 8y ago
Do you drink? I gave up drinking for a few years for weight reasons, and my IBS fixed itself, and didn't come back when I started drinking again.
- iamben 8y ago
  Beer certainly exacerbated my symptoms. Alcohol has become a much-less-often thing for me (mostly because you can't really have 'a quick pint'). I've benefitted most mentally here though, I think? You don't realise how often you have that post drinking booze-blues (even in the most minor way) until you don't have it very often. Coincidentally, cleaner alcohol (vodka) seems to minimise the mental and physical hangovers far more than drinking beer.
- pumanoir 8y ago
  I pretty much don't. Although I like to taste a glass of different types of beer when I go to a new region (here in Europe). I have noticed that it does trigger the IBS symptoms roughly 40% of the time. Thanks for the comment. I think I'll give up on the tasting because like the parent mentioned IBS is miserable.

fezz 8y ago

I had the same experience with a fasting/keto regimen. The fasting had a big impact on how deep my sleep was. At times it almost felt like coming out of anesthesia at the hospital.

Aromasin 8y ago

I've found with me that, after trying keto for ages and loving how I felt but hating the diet itself, I managed to pin point the issue down to grains. Any form of grain, be it rice, wheat, barley, oats etc, all seemed to mess me up big style. I'n now on a diet of mostly fruit, nuts, beans, seeds and tubers and I'm better than I was on keto on almost every measurable factor. I think cutting out the carbs initially improves the lives of most people because it's a group of food that contains the biggest offenders in terms of IBS related trigger, but it's rarely carbohydrate in itself. In terms of reintroducing foods, don't go back to carbs and cut back! You're just setting yourself up to fail. Just reintroduce carbs slowly up. Start with tubers and root veg, as from what I've read they're often the easiest in terms of digestion. Then move on to fruits, then nuts, then seeds, then finish with grains. It could well be you're gluten intolerant so there are only a few types of grain you're sensitive to.

dr_dshiv 8y ago
Maybe it is glycemic load? I completely agree, but I get hit hard by sugars, bread, mashed potatoes and cheap fries (really good fries I justify).
- bitL 8y ago
  If you still want to enjoy fries, get an air fryer and just spray sliced potatoes with a very small amount of olive oil. Then cook only up to temperature of 250F/120C to prevent acrylamide from forming (it might take 30-60 minutes to be finished). I used to be hit hard by regular fries (was feeling sick for a day, felt them staying in my stomach for a while etc.) until I switched to the aforementioned method. Taste is almost the same, but digestion is unproblematic now.
- spraak 8y ago
  Processed carbohydrates will by definition hit you hard. Added oil is also hard. Try intact grains, e.g. rice, quinoa, millet, barley, etc. Even whole wheat bread or pasta will hit harder than boiled wheat grains.
  - 8y ago

laforge 8y ago

Maybe you want to consider to switch to a whole food plant based diet. Other than the other „lifestyle“ diets such as low carb, the plant based is actually backed by science. A good source is nutritionfacts.org and the book „how not to die“ by the same author. If you asked me to switch two months ago, I‘d say no way. But the science behind it convinced me to try it and it is so much easier than expected.

iamben 8y ago
Appreciate the comment; I tried veganism as a test for a month a few years ago and didn't get on with it at all. Keto seems to work pretty well for me - I enjoy the food and there's plenty of science to geek out on :-)
JanSt 8y ago
The science is actually very shaky. I've looked at the first 30 or so studies Greger cites and they often seem not to give (with statistical significance or at all) what he seems to claim. There are also many duplicated sources to increase the citation page count. He also cherry-picks very strongly.
coldtea 8y ago
If the science is a private website and a book by the same person, it's not really "science". And by mixing and matching different research papers, any diet peddler/author/etc can make it appear as their specific diet is "backed by science" (when it's just a bunch of disparate papers in its favor, without context -- e.g. later responses to those papers, quality and reproducibility, papers that study the exact opposite claims and also work, etc). The only real science is not in studies (that are a dime a dozen, of widely different quality, and most are shoddily done and discredited by later studies), but in what's accepted by the nutritionist/medical professionals as nutrition 101.
- laforge 8y ago
  Generally I agree, but I don't think that this applies to nutritionfacts.org. The website is not by a single individual with commercial interests. All revenue from the book goes to his foundation, which runs the website. And the book has round about 100 pages of references. Here is a video where he explains how he does his research and how the videos are created: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/behind-the-scenes-at-nutritionfacts-org/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/behind-the-scenes-at-nutrit...

devilmoon 8y ago

This sounds quite interesting to me, have you tried a FODMAP diet for your IBS symptoms before switching to keto? I've been going back and forth on FODMAPs for the last year and a half to try and pinpoint what it is that triggers my symptoms, however no matter how "cleanly" I eat I often end up getting symptoms from foods that are supposedly safe for me (or no symptoms at all from stuff that a few months ago would've given me days of problems). I'm looking to switch it up a bit since it doesn't seem like FODMAP is a viable long term solution and it's not solving my problems entirely, would you recommend looking into keto?

iamben 8y ago
I never tried a FODMAP diet - I guess at the time it just seemed _too_ restrictive. I suppose keto is just as restrictive, but it's like anything right? You're never going to be able to give up smoking until you're ready to give up smoking. I was just at a point in life where I could embrace something and it worked for me. Based on how _I_ feel, I'd definitely recommend it. But I'm (definitely) not a doctor, and you're (most probably) not me(!), so I can't tell you whether it would work for you or not. That said, there are some fabulous communities, a lot of advice, data and science about keto though - have a read of some and if you think it fits, give it a go and see how you feel :-)

bitL 8y ago

Maybe pre-diabetes? https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/features/diabetes-lack-of-sleep#1 https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/features/diabetes-lack-of-sle...

iamben 8y ago
Nah, I've had that checked multiple times.

mtw 8y ago

I recommend discussing with a medical professional if you sweat. Sweat means inflammation, fever or slight fever. It could be nothing but it could be also symptoms of pre-diabetes type 2, cancer or other chronic disease.

an_ko 8y ago
It could also mean your duvet is too thick, or that it's summer...
- mtw 8y ago
  yes, that's true. But he also states that he sweats more depending on food. That means his body has an inflammation reaction towards certain foods. Could be sugar/refined grains (which untreated could lead to diabetes type ii), other people have inflammation when eating BBQ red meat (which increases risks of cancer)

happy4crazy 8y ago

Interesting! I have the opposite experience. I've gone on a bunch of very low-carb diets, maybe ten at this point (not sure if they were exactly ketogenic or not), and I've enjoyed them. But every time I try low-carb, my sleep gets extremely light (I'll wake up 3 or 4 times a night), I sleep a couple hours less than normal, and I get weirdly vivid dreams. It's always the weird sleep that makes me quit the diet.

slothtrop 8y ago

I wonder if it's symptomatic of low-fat diets, or insulin resistance from too many carbs. Apparently going very low-carb can cause insomnia for some people as well. Self-experimenting is important I guess. I'm faring better with my nutritional intake.