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Apologies, I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with me in any way or not. :) Envoy is indeed open source and freely-available for corporations to use. That is

by rocgf 8y ago

Apologies, I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with me in any way or not. :) Envoy is indeed open source and freely-available for corporations to use. That is not what I was implying. Amazon, out of all the big companies (Google, Netflix, Microsoft etc.), is the one with the least contribution to the open source world, despite using many of open source tools to build their AWS products.

scarface74 8y ago
If you make something open source and free for anyone to use, don’t complain when anyone uses it. That’s kind of the point.
- IshKebab 8y ago
  No it isn't. Just because users aren't legally required to contribute doesn't mean that they don't have a moral duty to support the project, if they can. Given Amazon's vast resources I think it is reasonable to feel that they should help out a bit.
cthalupa 8y ago
Is this really true, though? Looks like Amazon has multiple github accounts with lots of projects, including some high profile ones like Firecracker, etc. This has become a bit of an interesting topic to me because it keeps being brought up by people who sort of just state it as fact without providing any real argument. How much is enough? One full time developer? Ten? What if the project doesn't want to merge their contributions? Amazon just got killed on HN for open sourcing all of their ElasticSearch work in a separate repository. I feel like they can't win on open source with some of you guys.
- jacques_chester 8y ago
  https://medium.freecodecamp.org/the-top-contributors-to-github-2017-be98ab854e87 https://medium.freecodecamp.org/the-top-contributors-to-gith... On these figures, Amazon is behind other giants and has fewer contributions that a number of midsize tech companies like Red Hat or Pivotal (my employer).
  - cthalupa 8y ago
    It looks like that's missing data - including some very big ones. https://github.com/firecracker-microvm/firecracker https://github.com/firecracker-microvm/firecracker has quite a few stars and came out in 2018 - no mention. All three of them have contributed to the Linux kernel in significant fashions, and it's not listed for any of them, despite the 72k stars. And are github repos and stars the only way to measure open source contribution? The Xen project only has 162 stars, yet I don't think anyone would say it isn't an important project, and it's one Amazon has contributed to - if you're using a PV guest on Xen that's protected against Meltdown, chances are high you're using the Vixen mitigation that Amazon released. Could Amazon do more? Probably. I'm not trying to say they're perfect. But this idea that they don't contribute back to open source seems pretty flawed, even by the data in your link, which seems incomplete.
    - jacques_chester 8y ago
      A lot of folks have complained about this data set, but the author has updated based on feedback. So it'll improve. But unless Amazon are hiding several hundred contributors and thousands of commits in a repo that's been magically overlooked for years, the figures tend to make them look bad.
  - googlemike 8y ago
    This is missing so many repos, from so many companies. What a terrible source.
    - jacques_chester 8y ago
      I don't disagree, but it's the source we have and the author appears open to correction.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
pytyper2 8y ago
Amazon using it is a big endorsement, I would also imagine that they contribute bug reports.
throw882510 8y ago
It’s tricky to collect Amazon data on this. Amazon contributes back to projects under individual employee developers accounts quite a bit. For some reason Amazon just doesn’t want to show they had any involvement with that commit and doesn’t care about how it’s seen. From the times I’ve seen it, seems like this might by by design

by rocgf 8y ago

scarface74 8y ago

If you make something open source and free for anyone to use, don’t complain when anyone uses it. That’s kind of the point.

IshKebab 8y ago
No it isn't. Just because users aren't legally required to contribute doesn't mean that they don't have a moral duty to support the project, if they can. Given Amazon's vast resources I think it is reasonable to feel that they should help out a bit.

cthalupa 8y ago

Is this really true, though? Looks like Amazon has multiple github accounts with lots of projects, including some high profile ones like Firecracker, etc. This has become a bit of an interesting topic to me because it keeps being brought up by people who sort of just state it as fact without providing any real argument. How much is enough? One full time developer? Ten? What if the project doesn't want to merge their contributions? Amazon just got killed on HN for open sourcing all of their ElasticSearch work in a separate repository. I feel like they can't win on open source with some of you guys.

jacques_chester 8y ago
https://medium.freecodecamp.org/the-top-contributors-to-github-2017-be98ab854e87 https://medium.freecodecamp.org/the-top-contributors-to-gith... On these figures, Amazon is behind other giants and has fewer contributions that a number of midsize tech companies like Red Hat or Pivotal (my employer).
- cthalupa 8y ago
  It looks like that's missing data - including some very big ones. https://github.com/firecracker-microvm/firecracker https://github.com/firecracker-microvm/firecracker has quite a few stars and came out in 2018 - no mention. All three of them have contributed to the Linux kernel in significant fashions, and it's not listed for any of them, despite the 72k stars. And are github repos and stars the only way to measure open source contribution? The Xen project only has 162 stars, yet I don't think anyone would say it isn't an important project, and it's one Amazon has contributed to - if you're using a PV guest on Xen that's protected against Meltdown, chances are high you're using the Vixen mitigation that Amazon released. Could Amazon do more? Probably. I'm not trying to say they're perfect. But this idea that they don't contribute back to open source seems pretty flawed, even by the data in your link, which seems incomplete.
  - jacques_chester 8y ago
    A lot of folks have complained about this data set, but the author has updated based on feedback. So it'll improve. But unless Amazon are hiding several hundred contributors and thousands of commits in a repo that's been magically overlooked for years, the figures tend to make them look bad.
- googlemike 8y ago
  This is missing so many repos, from so many companies. What a terrible source.
  - jacques_chester 8y ago
    I don't disagree, but it's the source we have and the author appears open to correction.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

pytyper2 8y ago

Amazon using it is a big endorsement, I would also imagine that they contribute bug reports.

throw882510 8y ago

It’s tricky to collect Amazon data on this. Amazon contributes back to projects under individual employee developers accounts quite a bit. For some reason Amazon just doesn’t want to show they had any involvement with that commit and doesn’t care about how it’s seen. From the times I’ve seen it, seems like this might by by design