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Lithium is vastly abundant and is not really the problem. If all else fails you can extract it by distilling sea water. The problem is Cobalt which is essential

by sprash 8y ago

Lithium is vastly abundant and is not really the problem. If all else fails you can extract it by distilling sea water. The problem is Cobalt which is essential for working LiIon batteries and is required in equally vast quantities.

init 8y ago
And 50% of the world cobalt production comes from DR Congo, a country that hasn't been stable since the 1990s. A lot of that cobalt money ends up in the hands of international mining companies doing dodgy deals with corrupt top government officials.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  Nit pick, but "in the hands of international mining companies", mining companies don't have hands, it's never corrupt companies, it's corrupt [groups of] people.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    Corporations definitely have a culture, for better or worse. And it's not always just the sum of their employees'.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      Ergo "groups of people". It's easy to dismiss the responsibility that lies on people by saying "this or that organisation failed/was malevolent/whatever". Sometimes results are emergent and unexpected, but it seems starkly - from my observations - that individuals usually do realise, and often are consciously in control of their directing influence. Group effects are known, cf bystander effect. Actually companies show a bystander-like effect, "what we're doing here is evil, someone [else] should change that". Just because such behaviours are common in groups doesn't mean individuals aren't responsible. It's easier to ignore your moral responsibilities by invoking the company as the responsible party.
      - ethbro 8y ago
        No. Not "ergo, groups of people." Not emergent effects. And not the bystander effect. Corporate culture as in, we want you to be a {insert company name here} person. And the corporation is set up to make that happen. You're discounting having the ability to mold someone for a decade+, which is not an insignificant effect on their behavior.
Zak 8y ago
There are Li-ion chemistries that don't require cobalt. They don't have quite as high energy density.
xbmcuser 8y ago
No it is not. Tesla has the best batteries in production currently and they use the least amount of cobalt. They even have plans to stop using cobalt completely in future versions. But currently they have a battery that is 20-25% better in most metrics and uses the least amount of cobalt.

by sprash 8y ago

init 8y ago

And 50% of the world cobalt production comes from DR Congo, a country that hasn't been stable since the 1990s. A lot of that cobalt money ends up in the hands of international mining companies doing dodgy deals with corrupt top government officials.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Nit pick, but "in the hands of international mining companies", mining companies don't have hands, it's never corrupt companies, it's corrupt [groups of] people.
- ethbro 8y ago
  Corporations definitely have a culture, for better or worse. And it's not always just the sum of their employees'.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    Ergo "groups of people". It's easy to dismiss the responsibility that lies on people by saying "this or that organisation failed/was malevolent/whatever". Sometimes results are emergent and unexpected, but it seems starkly - from my observations - that individuals usually do realise, and often are consciously in control of their directing influence. Group effects are known, cf bystander effect. Actually companies show a bystander-like effect, "what we're doing here is evil, someone [else] should change that". Just because such behaviours are common in groups doesn't mean individuals aren't responsible. It's easier to ignore your moral responsibilities by invoking the company as the responsible party.
    - ethbro 8y ago
      No. Not "ergo, groups of people." Not emergent effects. And not the bystander effect. Corporate culture as in, we want you to be a {insert company name here} person. And the corporation is set up to make that happen. You're discounting having the ability to mold someone for a decade+, which is not an insignificant effect on their behavior.

Zak 8y ago

There are Li-ion chemistries that don't require cobalt. They don't have quite as high energy density.

xbmcuser 8y ago

No it is not. Tesla has the best batteries in production currently and they use the least amount of cobalt. They even have plans to stop using cobalt completely in future versions. But currently they have a battery that is 20-25% better in most metrics and uses the least amount of cobalt.