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A yet another reason to recognize that life is so pathetic, so here is a guy who spent his entire youth supposedly serving his country (or actually serving his

by trpc 8y ago

A yet another reason to recognize that life is so pathetic, so here is a guy who spent his entire youth supposedly serving his country (or actually serving his bosses agendas and ambitions?) for peanuts and he is now an old jobless man with thousands of dollars in debt that he has to become a spy to pay off his debt

CryptoPunk 8y ago
Just because someone ends up in dire straits, doesn't mean they are good. He could have spent less to avoid debt. He could have gotten a job in the private sector. In a country like the US, there is no excuse for resorting to treason to get a pay check.
- trpc 8y ago
  >He could have spent less to avoid debt Easier said than done in most cases, not all people are 20 or 30 something above average IQs and can write some app or website and by the end of the year he would raise a couple of million from investors or get a job in some fancy startup, most lives are just pathetic and the need for money can make people do unimaginable things, the guy is 61 years old and he is jobless and in debt >no excuse for resorting to treason of course there is no excuse and it's totally a treason, I am just noting that how pathetic life can be
  - neilv 8y ago
    You might want to edit to clarify. It sounds like you're saying that most people who are not startup techbros have pathetic lives.
- iliketosleep 8y ago
  You're right that there's no excuse per se, but one must acknowledge that desperate people will resort to desperate measures - especially those who have a family to support. It's easy to take the moral high ground until you find yourself in the sort of situation where the future of your family is on the line. History has proven that people who are normaly good can be capable of terrible things when faced with perceived threats to their survival.
- np_tedious 8y ago
  It's not really about individual morality though. It's about the system, incentives, and aggregates. Take 100 people in a situation comparable to his and given the same opportunity, maybe 10 partake in treason. We should aim to lower the total amount, the rate willing to partake, or both.
adrr 8y ago
He was probably making $100k when he left the CIA. If he worked 20 years, he probably has a nice pension. Most career federal employees make decent money, both my parents worked their careers for the government and live debt free.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  Divorce?
andonisus 8y ago
Why does it seem like you are giving him a pass for treason? Everyone has struggles. This does not give you a pass to become a spy for a hostile foreign nation and endanger the lives of your countrymen.
rjf72 8y ago
At what point of poverty would you start attacking people you know to be innocent, to sustain yourself? For many people, as the number of homeless testify to, that point does not exist. It's obvious that a multi millionaire would not become a spy for $25k (as this man did), but would he for $50 million? If our multi-millionaire is this person, I'd expect the answer would likely be a resounding yes. And this guy did something much worse than just attacking people. He allegedly gave information on undercover operatives to China. Them going "missing" after extensive "questioning" would be hardly surprising, and this blood would be on his hands. But hey, now he has $25k... I think peoples actions generally reflect their character, not their condition. It's why you'll find penny pinching billionaires, or people who can barely afford a loaf of bread insistent on sharing it with you. But spies... if somebody wants to go join an enemy force and fight against their home country - that's fine - though they should never expect to be treated as anything besides an enemy. But a spy, by contrast, exploits good will to try to hurt the people giving it to him. As the article mentions he was pressing former colleagues for information, with the aim of giving it to people that would likely use it to hurt them with. Spies are the scum of this earth and in no way whatsoever does this individual deserve even the slightest grain of sympathy. Whatever punishment he receives will be far too lenient.

by trpc 8y ago

CryptoPunk 8y ago

Just because someone ends up in dire straits, doesn't mean they are good. He could have spent less to avoid debt. He could have gotten a job in the private sector. In a country like the US, there is no excuse for resorting to treason to get a pay check.

trpc 8y ago
>He could have spent less to avoid debt Easier said than done in most cases, not all people are 20 or 30 something above average IQs and can write some app or website and by the end of the year he would raise a couple of million from investors or get a job in some fancy startup, most lives are just pathetic and the need for money can make people do unimaginable things, the guy is 61 years old and he is jobless and in debt >no excuse for resorting to treason of course there is no excuse and it's totally a treason, I am just noting that how pathetic life can be
- neilv 8y ago
  You might want to edit to clarify. It sounds like you're saying that most people who are not startup techbros have pathetic lives.
iliketosleep 8y ago
You're right that there's no excuse per se, but one must acknowledge that desperate people will resort to desperate measures - especially those who have a family to support. It's easy to take the moral high ground until you find yourself in the sort of situation where the future of your family is on the line. History has proven that people who are normaly good can be capable of terrible things when faced with perceived threats to their survival.
np_tedious 8y ago
It's not really about individual morality though. It's about the system, incentives, and aggregates. Take 100 people in a situation comparable to his and given the same opportunity, maybe 10 partake in treason. We should aim to lower the total amount, the rate willing to partake, or both.

adrr 8y ago

He was probably making $100k when he left the CIA. If he worked 20 years, he probably has a nice pension. Most career federal employees make decent money, both my parents worked their careers for the government and live debt free.

Scoundreller 8y ago
Divorce?

andonisus 8y ago

Why does it seem like you are giving him a pass for treason? Everyone has struggles. This does not give you a pass to become a spy for a hostile foreign nation and endanger the lives of your countrymen.

rjf72 8y ago

At what point of poverty would you start attacking people you know to be innocent, to sustain yourself? For many people, as the number of homeless testify to, that point does not exist. It's obvious that a multi millionaire would not become a spy for $25k (as this man did), but would he for $50 million? If our multi-millionaire is this person, I'd expect the answer would likely be a resounding yes. And this guy did something much worse than just attacking people. He allegedly gave information on undercover operatives to China. Them going "missing" after extensive "questioning" would be hardly surprising, and this blood would be on his hands. But hey, now he has $25k... I think peoples actions generally reflect their character, not their condition. It's why you'll find penny pinching billionaires, or people who can barely afford a loaf of bread insistent on sharing it with you. But spies... if somebody wants to go join an enemy force and fight against their home country - that's fine - though they should never expect to be treated as anything besides an enemy. But a spy, by contrast, exploits good will to try to hurt the people giving it to him. As the article mentions he was pressing former colleagues for information, with the aim of giving it to people that would likely use it to hurt them with. Spies are the scum of this earth and in no way whatsoever does this individual deserve even the slightest grain of sympathy. Whatever punishment he receives will be far too lenient.